Already got dual tuner installed !

[s_kates81]

Hi Guys,
I've already got dual tuner installed in the azbox but it's not usable since no software for it yet. Anyways, just wanna know what are the things this dual tuner can do since I don't know much about it.

[xanadu]

You have answered your own question.

As it's not supported it does nothing.

[pr2]

Hello,

Firmware doesn't support yet dual tuner.

The goal of Dual tuner is to be able to watch another program while recording, meaning another program from another TP.

You can already zap to another channel with one tuner in the Azbox while recording but you need to stay on the same TP.

Pr2

[s_kates81]

PR2, thanks mate for helpful answers as always. OK I get you about it that we have to be on the same satellite for that. But how do we do that? Do we need to install extra cable for that? Or just one satellite cable which we connect with the box normally? and it'll be OK for both tuners?

[tinos]

You will need a Dual LNB (1LNB with 2 outputs or 2 LNBs) with 2 cables so you can control all independent from each other... If you use same cable then you need to use Loop and won't be able to tune Vertical and Horizontal at the same time only the one you are watching. So probably not worth buying a second tuner for that.

[pr2]

Hello,

Method 1 (1 tuner):
Today you can already watch and record different program simply because on the same frequence (also called a TP) several channels are broadcasted and you can record one and watch at the other one on the same TP.

Method 2 (2 Tuner but only 1 cable from the antenna):

You need to loop the the out of tuner 1 to the in of tuner 2. Simply with a small cable.
So you can watch all the channels from the same Satellite in the same polarity Horizontal or Vertical.
Some TV broadcaster take care of this and setup all their TV channels on the same polarity so a simple loopback cable will do the trick.

Method 3 (2 Tuner with 2 cable from antenna so you have independant LNB or 2 exit LNB).

This is the best method since you can watch whatever program you and record wathever program you want. If you have several LNB on the same antenna each LNB should have 2 exit and you connect the different LNB to DiseqC commutator 1 per tuner (so 2 DiseqC).

So you are totally independant, so for exemple in Europe most french people have a setup to be able to watch a channel on Hotbird in Vertical and record a program on Astra in Vertical.

Hope this clarify the different method and the interest in dual tuner.

Pr2

[s_kates81]

PR2, thanks for the explanation mate. OK, I understand. But since I connect the box to TV by hdmi port, where will I be able to watch the second tuner transmission? Will it be tuned to another channel? or what? What remote I'll use to change channels?

[tinos]

No firmware support right now... that means it is only using your Power Supply to generate more heat inside...

[pr2]

PR2, thanks for the explanation mate. OK, I understand. But since I connect the box to TV by hdmi port, where will I be able to watch the second tuner transmission? Will it be tuned to another channel? or what? What remote I'll use to change channels?

Hello,

When you record a program you normally don't watch it so your TV screen is free to watch the other channel.

If you watch what you record... then you won't watch another program otherwhise you are a kind of Superman able to watch two program at the same times, then you will need 2 TV and two STB and not a Dual tuner one. :-)

Yes, Tinos, we know that TODAY the firmware is not able to manage both tuner but for the official release end june it will.

Pr2

[AJR]

otherwhise you are a kind of superman able to watch two program at the same times, then you will need 2 tv and two stb and not a dual tuner one. :-)



pip ??

[pr2]

pip ??

Picture in Picture, PiP, is only possible via the device that own the tuners since it is the tuner that provide the image.

So if you PiP on your TV you will need to use the TV Tuner for on channel and the PiP from the HDMI interface for the Azbox image.

But I have a good news, Picture-in-Picture will be available on Azbox.
So indeed we will all become Superman! :rofl:

Pr2

[digihoe]

pip ??

PiP will only be possible for SD/SD or HD/SD not HD/HD from what I've read in the sigma designs specs, but it sure should be possible...

Best regards!

[s_kates81]

Hello,

When you record a program you normally don't watch it so your TV screen is free to watch the other channel.

If you watch what you record... then you won't watch another program otherwhise you are a kind of Superman able to watch two program at the same times, then you will need 2 TV and two STB and not a Dual tuner one. :-)

Pr2

a bit confused, ok for example, I am at channel A which I am watching, i start recording it, and if i zap to channel B, won't the recording will be stopped for channel A? since the screen will switch from channel A to channel B.

[AJR]

a bit confused, ok for example, I am at channel A which I am watching, i start recording it, and if i zap to channel B, won't the recording will be stopped for channel A? since the screen will switch from channel A to channel B.

No... cos the hard drive will hold onto channel A, but the video output will switch to channel b

[s_kates81]

if it's that, then it seems a worthwhile investment which I put on the dual tuner. :)

[pr2]

You can already experience it today.

Choose 2 channels that are transmitted on the same Satellite, same TP (meaning frequency, symbolrate, polarity).

Start recording program A, zap to program B and you will get the picture and recording of program A still work. you can already experience it today with one tuner.

If you want to zap to a channel in a different TP, Azbox will prompt you if you want to stop recording.

[Yoda]

@Pr2

Thanks for the explanations, really well written.

My question is as follows.

I have 8 lnbs connected to a emp 8/1 switch and a single cable from the switch to the azbox.

My 28.2E lnb is twin, can i connect a second cable from the 28E lnb to the second tuner therefor be able to record anything from 28E while watching say hotbird 13E?

I know that this is not possible until firmware allows.

or am I thinking in the wrong way.?

Thanks

Yoda

[AJR]

My 28.2E lnb is twin, can i connect a second cable from the 28E lnb to the second tuner therefor be able to record anything from 28E while watching say hotbird 13E?

Yes that should be the way to do it.

[goran]

Check out the post 163, please:

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105049&page=5

:respect-050::respect-051:

[goran]

You can already experience it today.

Choose 2 channels that are transmitted on the same Satellite, same TP (meaning frequency, symbolrate, polarity).

Start recording program A, zap to program B and you will get the picture and recording of program A still work. you can already experience it today with one tuner.

If you want to zap to a channel in a different TP, Azbox will prompt you if you want to stop recording.

A few years back I saw at a Multimedia Fair in London a Korean SD receiver with HDD, with a capacity to record from 16 channels at the same time [the same transponder was in question, of course]...:svengo:

It will be interesting to see those developments...:respect-048:

[pr2]

@Yoda

Yes this is typically what a dual Tuner is for, you understand properly my explanation.

@Goran

Recording a full stream is not a problem, the problem is decoding since each channel in a stream has its own decrypt key. So recording 16 FTA channels is not a problem but what is the interest to record 16 encrypted channels? Since at the next keys change in your subscription card you won't be able to clear the encrypted program.

So you will need to record all the 16 channels encrypted and then playing back each indivually to clear the channel and record it into a clear channel to be able to watch later on your program. Recording encrypted is useless from my point of view.

And recording the 16 channels decoded can be a problem both for your crypto card and for the receiver because he will need to handle many information at the same time.

I think that the Azbox will be able to handle 4 simultaneous channels decoding (for the dual tuner stuff).

Pr2

[goran]

The Korean guys were using a card. They demonstrated it to me. It was very impressive, I must say... Simple, elegant and effective.

Details? Wouldn't really know, sorry... Tech or otherwise. But I saw it work. SD. Not sure about HD...

One more thing: with Linux we can record the whole stream. Our next CS weapon, they say!

Can it be already decrypted? I mean, recording with the CW etc. shouldn't be impossible?

And we do not need 16, for sure: 2 would be fine by me, 4 are a luxury... ;):respect-050:

A lay person signing off...:king-041::respect-051:

[digihoe]

I would say ~8-10 channels can be decrypted by the same card (same as CS) but you make a good point about being able to "record the DCW" this is also done in CS (in some cases, with large groups and several cards) but for home recording of a full TS, I would say dual tuner is better option, the overhead from all the other channels will dry out you HDD space quick....

[goran]

Cool! Thanx for your additional explanations. :cheers2:

Btw, how much per film, if the whole stream is recorded, please?:respect-051:

[tinos]

It will be the maximum MB/s your card can handle... a full TS stream... on SS2 that is 42,5 Mbps... so aprox. 300MB just 1 minute (18GB/h) and I think probably AzBox HD streams can go higher rates than SS2!

While ago people used Tsreader to do that on PC with SS2, then you could work on all channels recorded.
http://www.coolstf.com/tsreader/

Also some do not allow all pids to be recorded... don't know about AzBox drivers... example below on what happened with some SS2 revisions:

----
Cards with demultiplexers

TSReader was designed around hardware interfaces that send all packets from the transport stream. Some cards, such as those using the B2C2 control chip with pre 4.3.0 drivers, cannot send the entire transport stream over to the PC but instead only allow a certain number of PIDs from the mux active at any one time. TSReader does support these cards but with a few restrictions:

[digihoe]

It will be the maximum MB/s your card can handle... a full TS stream... on SS2 that is 42,5 Mbps... so aprox. 300MB just 1 minute (18GB/h) and I think probably AzBox HD streams can go higher rates than SS2!

While ago people used Tsreader to do that on PC with SS2, then you could work on all channels recorded.
http://www.coolstf.com/tsreader/

Also some do not allow all pids to be recorded... don't know about AzBox drivers... example below on what happened with some SS2 revisions:

----
Cards with demultiplexers

TSReader was designed around hardware interfaces that send all packets from the transport stream. Some cards, such as those using the B2C2 control chip with pre 4.3.0 drivers, cannot send the entire transport stream over to the PC but instead only allow a certain number of PIDs from the mux active at any one time. TSReader does support these cards but with a few restrictions:

Well said, S2 transmission is said to be ~90 Mbps... So that would be ~600mb/min so a two hour recording would yeild a file of ~72GB...

Best regards...