Sat Tuning Problem.

[dave3dg]

I wonder if any of you very helpful 8k experienced guys have any ideas on my sat positioning problems? I am using:


Nabilo Pureflash + Barry Allen
Nabilo Blackhole (running)
CCcam 2.1.2

On Tuner ‘A’ (Motorised) the Sat positioning menu is almost unusable in as much as:


28e on a fixed Zone 2 dish shows 73% signal. The 7020 shows 92%.


It only moves the dish to find a satellite when it wants to.


Will only lock onto 28e (fixed dish Tuner ‘B’) and 13e (Motorised Tuner ‘A’) Will not lock onto 19e or 16e. Have not tried the rest up to 1w yet.


Transponder details entered for satellite required defaults continuously to a non-existing transponder on19e.


The manual transponder scan finds nothing even when locked on to a sat.


The Automatic Scan will scan 13e first with only half the transponders scanned in, try to do19e next (Sat not stored yet as it wont lock on) and 28e last (not stored either as a static dish is installed on 28e (Tuner ‘B’).


Blackhole boots up to a black/grey screen with ‘starting Enigma2’ message which sometimes just sits there until I manually select a channel which then works. Is this normal?

I am religiously following Oldfarts excellent sticky for instructions and settings including the bug re-boot sequence between sats.

Thanks,

Dave

[doubleudee]

You'll have a problem if using cccam 2.1.2 as it don't work, and i'd try a re-load of your image
as it seems to have locked up.

[dave3dg]

It would be great if it is a CCcam problem m8? The cam is working OK on what is tuned in but is a cam going to affect tuning? I will swap back to 2.1.1 when I get home.

dave

[doubleudee]

sorry - i meant it dont work with digitv

[dave3dg]

You'll have a problem if using cccam 2.1.2 as it don't work, and i'd try a re-load of your image
as it seems to have locked up.

Done that anall m8 last weekend, if anyone would like the sequence for re-booting the 8k then I am your man.:king-041:

I swear I have re-booted this 8k in the two weeks I have had it more times than the 7020 in 4 years. :nopity:
dave

[doubleudee]

I took BA off and just used nabilo to get mine working, I'll be trying BA sometime soon once I'm more conversed with the unit.

[dave3dg]

I think I will have to go right back to basics too so I think a clean flash and maybe just blackhole on if it will work like that. Have to wait for the W/E now though.

Still I would have thought sombody would have an idea what was wrong. Never mind, the place I got it from is trying to help so I will leave it to them.

Thanks for your help WD.

dave

[oldfart]

On Tuner ‘A’ (Motorised) the Sat positioning menu is almost unusable in as much as:
* 28e on a fixed Zone 2 dish shows 73% signal. The 7020 shows 92%.
I asked about this - the reply was - these boxes are not scientific instruments - the signal meter is only a guide.


* It only moves the dish to find a satellite when it wants to.
Have you got 'show dish movement' turned on in the options menu?


Transponder details entered for satellite required defaults continuously to a non-existing transponder on19e.
Eh?? - does not make sense .. re-read what u wrote


The manual transponder scan finds nothing even when locked on to a sat.
Which one?


The Automatic Scan will scan 13e first with only half the transponders scanned in, try to do19e next (Sat not stored yet as it wont lock on) and 28e last (not stored either as a static dish is installed on 28e (Tuner ‘B’).
Don't use Automatic scan - use manual.


Blackhole boots up to a black/grey screen with ‘starting Enigma2’ message which sometimes just sits there until I manually select a channel which then works. Is this normal?

Yes - quite nomal - if the DM can't see a channel. It defaults to the last channel it was on before re-boot.


I don't think the problems are image dependant - (maybe someone will correct me) - most of the 'base functions' of the DM are done by DreamBox code (DMM), which is the same for all images.

[oldfart]

Have you updated your satellites.xml file
you can do this from _http://satellites-xml.eu/

[dave3dg]

Have you updated your satellites.xml file
you can do this from _http://satellites-xml.eu/

Hi m8 I used the one off here but can you explain how to do so I can make sure I do it right?

dave

I have dowloaded the sats I require, can you tell me where it goes? There is one in var/etc.

[dave3dg]

I asked about this - the reply was - these boxes are not scientific instruments - the signal meter is only a guide.
Thanks, I did read that.

Have you got 'show dish movement' turned on in the options menu?
Yes.

Transponder details entered for satellite required defaults continuously to a non-existing transponder on19e

Select Sat and transponder required in Satfinder Menu. Go to positioner Setup and there is another transponder frequency and satellite selected. Cant tell you what it is now as the Positioner Setup is corrupted and locked up. Enigma2 re-boot required.


Which one?
Any Satellite

Don't use Automatic scan - use manual.
Can't use manual it finds nothing at all

Yes - quite nomal - if the DM can't see a channel. It defaults to the last channel it was on before re-boot.


I don't think the problems are image dependant - (maybe someone will correct me) - most of the 'base functions' of the DM are done by DreamBox code (DMM), which is the same for all images.
So is that corrupted on mine?

[oldfart]

re:- satellites .xml
dunno if there is a 'right' way, just select the satellites u want, download, put into etc/tuxbox and probably re-boot.
If u scan & find some channels, then the DM is working, its now either your dish needs some attention - or u can't get all the channels anyway.

[oldfart]

I gave up with the 'issues' with nabilo images and switched to OoZoon. Bit more involved (not many buttons) but more things work. Not using BA anymore!

[dave3dg]

dunno if there is a 'right' way, just select the satellites u want, download, put into etc/tuxbox and probably re-boot.
If u sacn & find some channels, then the DM is working, its now either your dish needs some attention - or u can't get all the channels anyway.

The 7020 is doing it all on the same 100cm dish m8. I will do the sat file now.

thanks,

dave

[dave3dg]

Goin to bed before I bounce the crock o sh1te down the drive.
It's goin back!

[Quailman]

Just bare with it, I personally would not just download and replace the satellite.xml file, I would download and edit the one you have with the new frequency's.
But it seems that yours is playing up, have you tried the ones uploaded by kiliantv?

[oldfart]

see the file in the public uploads section
E2 satellites.xml
updated by Reinh@rd 27.07.2009

[dave3dg]

@ Quailman:

'But it seems that yours is playing up, have you tried the ones uploaded by kiliantv?'

Yes m8, that is the first one I tried which I thought that I had wrongly put it into var/etc where the cfg goes. So I have downloaded the new file which Oldfart put me on to and put that one into etc/tuxbox. I then deleted the kiliantv file and tried to manual download.

28e on Tuner 'B' static dish downloaded twice : seemed to tune in but nothing at all.
13e the only motorised sat stored comes up with approx half of the available transponders.

As I have changed the satellites file that must mean that the 8k must be getting information from elsewhere? Is there a satellite positions file built in the box?

@ Oldfart:

'see the file in the public uploads section E2 satellites.xml
updated by Reinh@rd 27.07.2009'

I will try that as a last resort before I clean the flash out and just try it with blackhole or Oozoon. What is concerning me is the panel distortion and locking up of the Sat Positioner menu making it impossible to lock on to a sat. Two or three re-boots to get it useable.

I am quite green on these satellite .xml files as I used to manuall update the transponders (Transponder Edit) with the 7020 but it seems that is no longer possible on the 8k.

Thanks for your help m8's,

dave.

[ian]

the locking up is a major problem with nabilosat m8,at least in my experience.
the problem seems to occur when you select a channel that no longer exists or in your case,not tuned into the correct parameters,and so the tuner recieves no signal.if you at this point try to enter the menus and move the dish,the box locks up.it does my fooking head in!

so,make sure before you try to manually move your dish that you are locked onto a signal first of all.everything is ok when you do it that way.ian

[Quailman]

Can I just ask is this a problem strait after flashing or did you edit something and it stopped working?

[dave3dg]

had the trouble from out the box really. The first thing I did after flash and image was to try to setup the static dish on 28e. That took ages but progrally hampered by my ignorance of the 8k.

It started looking up after I installed the satellite.xml by kiliantv which I put in var/etc where there was an original file. Straight replace.

Managed to tune 28e in (static dish) and with my converted Enigma2 bouquets thought this was a doddle:rolleyes:

My troubles began with trying to tune the other sats in on Tuner A which is a 1.2 Disequ with a 104cm Gibertini. Using the 7020 I selected 19e and then went back to the 8k and tried to tune in. I quickly realised there was a problem with all my transponder settings changing and a 30% signal from 19e. Would not lock on and still hasnt done so up to now.

Gave up on that and went for 13e which I got a good signal and locked on and eventually managed to tune in half the transponders only. Replaced the image (blackhole) and with several re-tunes still only have half rations.

After replacing the satellite.xml I downloaded with just the Sats I want and deleted the file from kiliantv I now have nothing at all on 28e eventhough manual tune seemed to be dowloading channels.

I think I need to know a bit more about the xml files as there seems to be a couple of them knocking about in the files.

cheers,

dave.

[ian]

theres nothing much to learn about the satellites.xml file m8,basically its just a list of all the available transponders,their frequencies,symbol rates ect and the sats position in the arc.

some find that they have to edit it in order for their dish to find and lock onto a given sat,particulary on 1w and 5e.

anyway heres mine for you to try.its quite up to date,but does include and the transponders for feeds,so you may wish to edit it,as the amount of transponders in the file can significantly effect the scan times.ian.

[Quailman]

It started looking up after I installed the satellite.xml by kiliantv which I put in var/etc where there was an original file. Straight replace.

I think it maybe the fact you did a straight replace as luis and myself had the same problem. Try Ian's (straight replace) and if that doesn't work mine is in the public upload section give that a go.

[dave3dg]

Thanks lads, I had a feeling and hoped all along it may be a xml related problem. Ian, how many satellite.xml files are there in the DB and which is the one that counts?

dave.

[ian]

to my knowledge theres only one m8.
it goes in /ect/tuxbox in E2 images.ian.

[Quailman]

@ Ian,
what image are you using m8, i just tried your satellite.xml file (just out of curiosity) and lost 28.2e. All the channels blacked out and 28.2e was removed from the scan-able satellite list, very strange!!

I'm using

flash
Nabilosat DM8000 Pure Flash 01JUL09, Barry Allen 4.8.21
and running
Nabilosat Enigma2 Black Hole - DM8000 v0.11

[Quailman]

Ok so there appears to be a problem with updating your satellite.xml file.

I loaded Ians file (Straight swap) and lost 28.2e but noticed the position are different

For 28.2e
Ians position="282

My position="284

So I changed Ian's file to 284 and gained the channels but still 28.2e was not on the scan-able list then reloaded mine and still the same problem 28.2e not on the scan-able satellites list.

Looking through my settings it has turn tuner A only 28.2e(which i have set to advanced) off all others are fine, turn back on and its back!!
My tuner B is set to simple 28.2e/19.2e that was not affected.

So my advice is always edit your own satellite file and dont straight swap as the position are affected.

[dave3dg]

The plot thickens, so to speak:). I have had settings changing all the time and no wonder by the sounds of it.

I havn't got my own file to edit which is my problem?
Please explain:

"For 28.2e
Ians position="282

My position="284"

I think I need to know.

Thanks for your diligence, I hope it is my problem.

dave

[Quailman]

When you look at the satellite.xml file at the start of each satellite frequency list it looks like this


Mine
<sat name="Astra/Eurobird (28.2E)" flags="0" position="284">

Ians
<sat name="Astra2/Eurobird 1 (28.2E)" flags="1" position="282">

If i change Ian's position to the same as mine, his file (28.2e) works (after turning tuner A back on)

I would think after noticing that the tuner had turned off, Ians will work if i clear and re-scan the channels.

[ian]

its all to do with where you originally saved any given sat position.

ie 28.2E is the correct postion for astra and in the xml file that translates to 282.
but its not the correct position for eurobird.thats located at 28.4E
and translates in the xml to 284.

we in the uk dont need to have the 3 sats at 28.2 and the 1 sat at 28.4 listed
seperately as they all appear as one sat,but people in europe who are out of the targeted footprint area,do need to adjust their dishes slightly to obtain the best signal.

these problems occur with all positions that have more than one sat located there,but slightly different in positon.

in the uk we have a problem with 5E and 1W,sometimes they are in the xml as 4.8E and 0.8W repectively.

so,as i stated,if you orignally loaded your image and stored the sat positions here in the UK,you will have problems if you the load another satellites.xml file that has been compilled by someone in europe.

not sure ive explained this very well,but its the best i could think of.

Quailman

it seems you xml is european in origin.
this really doesnt matter,its very simple to fix.as you have discovered its just a simple matter of editing the xml to what suits your saved settings.
ie if 282 doesnt work,change it to 284 and save.
the same applies to 5E and 1w.ian.

[Quailman]

Yes i am in Spain, would that be the reason it turn my turner A off?

[ian]

yes mate,
when you setup your enigma2 image for the first time,in tuner configuration you selected expert for each sat in turn and then setup your needed settings.ie diseque 1.2,usals for this sat,ect.
all this means is that when you originally did this your xml file didnt have 28.2 in it ,it had 28.4 instead,so the sat at 28.2 was never setup by you in the first place,hence the reason your tuner was turned off.

once you get your head around this mate,it really is very simple to understand what is happening here.

im not sure which is the weakest sat in europe at 28E,but thats the sat you should set your xml file to.so if eurobird is the weakest then set it at 284.
if its one of the astra's then set it at 282.ian.

[oldfart]

@dave3dg
are you using BarryAllen??

[dave3dg]

@dave3dg
are you using BarryAllen??

Yes m8 but thinking of dumping and just having aworking image only.

dave

[oldfart]

yes mate,
when you setup your enigma2 image for the first time,in tuner configuration you selected expert for each sat in turn and setup your needed settings.ie diseque 1.2 ect.
all this means is that when you originally did this your xml file didnt have 28.2 in it ,it had 28.4 instead,so the sat at 28.2 was never setup by you in the first place,hence the reason your tuner was turned off.

once you get your head around this mate,it really is very simple to understand what is happening here.

im not sure which is the weakest sat in europe at 28E,but thats the sat you should set your xml file to.so if eurobird is the weakest then set it at 284.
if its one of the astra's then set it at 282.ian.

Problem with that is: - we can get 28.4 ; BUT can't get the North beams (2D & 2A North) - so its play time to see what is the 'best fit'
my xml says:-
<sat name="Astra/Eurobird (28.2E)" flags="0" position="284">
it works - but the flags should be = 1

[oldfart]

Yes m8 but thinking of dumping and just having aworking image only.

dave

AHHHA ......

every time you hard-reset your box, files get loaded from the hard disk over the top of those in flash.
have a look at
/media/ba/ba/NabiloBlackHole_DM8000_011/etc/tuxbox/satellites.xml
it will overwrite your xml file everytime you power down & restart using BarryAllen.
To get over that - edit THAT file - or get rid of BA

[ian]

@oldfart
well if that is the case then the xml i uploaded is best for you.

you need to remember though to also go into your tuner configuration and setup your settings for 28.2E in there,as you will find like quailman did,that you have never set them up when you first loaded your image and your tuner will be turned off for this sat.

of course all of this is irelevant if you use a vbox.this only applies to peeps using usals.ian.

[oldfart]

@oldfart
well if that is the case then the xml i uploaded is best for you.

you need to remember though to also go into your tuner configuration and setup your settings for 28.2E in there,as you will find like quailman did,that you have never set them up when you first loaded your image and your tuner will be turned off for this sat.

of course all of this is irelevant if you use a vbox.this only applies to peeps using usals.ian.

Fixed dish = simple (no usals)
motorised = not usals -- using advanced with directly setup
we are at -16.6987° W (not like in the UK)

[ian]

makes no difference to you at all then mate.you could set it at any position you wished and it would still work.(same with me as i use a vbox)
this is only relevant to people who use usals.
the only thing that would happen in your case is that you would find that the sat had mysteriously removed itself from your sat list.ian.

[dave3dg]

AHHHA ......

every time you hard-reset your box, files get loaded from the hard disk over the top of those in flash.
have a look at
/media/ba/ba/NabiloBlackHole_DM8000_011/etc/tuxbox/satellites.xml
it will overwrite your xml file everytime you power down & restart using BarryAllen.
To get over that - edit THAT file - or get rid of BA

I have dumped pureflash but don't know how to do Barry Allen?

please

dave

[satfred]

Hi Dave chin up M8 don,t let it get your down, you will get there in the end, Fred.................

[dave3dg]

Bet your'e glad you didn't get one of these mothers :beatdeadhorse5:Fred?

[satfred]

I am sure you will get it sorted speak to you soon M8 Fred..........:respect-057:

[aabs]

Goin to bed before I bounce the crock o sh1te down the drive.
It's goin back!

Change your image no need to return box.

I am a massive fan of nabilosat and im using 0.12 and DO suffers loads of steerable lock ups with it using a STABS motor.
Best nabilosat image i have had with my motor for NO restarts required was 0.9. Give that a go and you will notice a differance.

0.12 seams to get upset very easy when changing sats especially if your doing a lot of channel hoping between them which i suspect you will be doing test driving a new box.

[dave3dg]

Thanks aabs m8 I will give a new image a go this one is unworkable.

dave

[oldfart]

try this one
_http://www.oozoon.de/progs/images/dm8000/OoZooN-CVS-full-dm8000-20090705.nfi

put into flash, update it, then ask ...
(If you have BarryAllen on CF - just remove the CF card)

[doubleudee]

If BA is on your HDD (like mine was!) re-format (initialise), that's what I did to kill the bugger!


AHHHA ......

every time you hard-reset your box, files get loaded from the hard disk over the top of those in flash.
have a look at
/media/ba/ba/NabiloBlackHole_DM8000_011/etc/tuxbox/satellites.xml
it will overwrite your xml file everytime you power down & restart using BarryAllen.
To get over that - edit THAT file - or get rid of BA

Now that's a handy tip i didn't know when setting mine up, glad I re-formatted!

[dave3dg]

try this one
_http://www.oozoon.de/progs/images/dm8000/OoZooN-CVS-full-dm8000-20090705.nfi

put into flash, update it, then ask ...
(If you have BarryAllen on CF - just remove the CF card)

Thanks m8 you are reading my mind about OoZooN as that is what I came up with after what has been said about Nab. I also read the Barry Allen addon to the 8k setup stickie and that gave a good clue with the CF card with their re-format procedure.

I am still not quite sure on the xml problem as I looked at "/media/ba/ba/NabiloBlackHole_DM8000_011/etc/tuxbox/satellites.xml" as you suggested and the position of 28e was 282 just the same as the downloaded xml I put in etc/tuxbox.

When you said "edit THAT file" did you mean change the 282 to 284 then would that sort out my blank channels on 28e? And is that a related problem I have with only half the channels tuning in on 13e?

I am taking Friday & Monday off work to try and sort this thing out.

Thanks for your patience and help.

dave.

[ian]

if you only have half the channels tuning in on 13E then the answer is simple.

you dont have all the needed data or the data you do have is out of date in the xml file that you are using.

i dont understand why you are all doing it this way though.
its very slow and depends entirely upon your xml file being up to date.
why are you not just loading settings using dreamset or another settings editor?
its takes just two mins and you will then have every channel thats available across the entire arc,without any need to scan anything.
to be honest the only scan thats ever needed with modern recievers is the manual single transponder scan,or blind scan for feeds.ian.

[dave3dg]

if you only have half the channels tuning in on 13E then the answer is simple.

you dont have all the needed data or the data you do have is out of date in the xml file that you are using.

i dont understand why you are all doing it this way though.
its very slow and depends entirely upon your xml file being up to date.
why are you not just loading settings using dreamset or another settings editor?
its takes just two mins and you will then have every channel thats available across the entire arc,without any need to scan anything.
to be honest the only scan thats ever needed with modern recievers is the manual single transponder scan.ian.


Ian,Thats what I used the first time I tried to set the box up m8.

I think I really need to start right over again with yet another new image in flash. I can't believe I am having all this trouble with the 8k after having the 7020 for 4ish years. I must confess to being very comfortable with the 7020 procedures. Its sat positioning menu and Transponder edit function with Lyngsat was all I ever needed.

dave

[ian]

dave,

what exactly is your problem?

there are too many questions on this thread from different people and now im very confused.

are you not able to lock onto any given sat?
or are you not able to get any signal from certain transponders on a given sat?

if you cant lock onto a given sat,then its down to your xml file.
if you have changed it since you first setup your tuner this is the reason why.
unless the sat positions are exactly the same in the relacement xml then you wont be able to lock onto a given sat untill you setup your tuner configuration again.

ie if you first set it up for 28.4 then changed your xml to one that has 28.2 inside of it,then your tuner will not be setup for this sat.
it will be seen as an entirely new satellite.

you need to enter your tuner configuration,choose expert,turn on your desired lnb,select diseque 1.2 and choose if usals are to be used.

before sending over any new xml file you should always check that the sat positions inside of the new xml are the same as your old one,and if they are not then edit them accordingly.

the only reason to ever use a new xml is if there have been many transponder changes or new sats added across the arc.
and only then if you use the scan facility on a regular basis(which there is no need)
when you update your settings on a regular basis.

if you are going to get this sorted you need to understand there is a specific order for doing things.

1 send over the xml file that you have chosen to use.then reboot.
2 send over your settings file(make sure this settings file has the same xml file)then reload this file.
3 setup your tuner configuration.

then do NOT ever send over another new updated xml file unless you have first checked that the sat positions in the new file correspond with your old file.

now i dont use BA,but as you do,you should also heed what oldfart has said and make sure that the xml file located inside BA on your HDD or wherever is also exactly the same xml file as the one you have in /ect/tuxbox

now with regards to your box locking up,some images,in particular nabilo,dont like it when there is no signal recieved from the tuner and at this point you try to enter the menus.
this problem will disappear when everything is setup correctly.
ian.

[dave3dg]

I know there have been lots of different questions and views on this thread and I am thankfull for everyones help.

You are not confused at all Ian, in fact you have answered most of my doubts and confusion in one thread. :respect-055:

After your very good explanation I now fully understand the xml problem which amongst image problems and at times my stupidity have caused my problems that I have.

Now you have explained I have no doubt the xml file is at the root of my inability to lock onto 16e or 19e. and the introduction of another xml has caused the loss of all channels on 28e.

Thanks Ian and the other guys who have helped.

dave.

[oldfart]

Thanks Ian for your very full & informative post.
Hope other newbies will read. Maybe at the end of all this, we can ask a mod to make the whole of this thread a sticky??

[ian]

hmmmmmmmm

me thinks we should have many more stickies than what we do have in this forum.

dont know about you,but i find myself answering the same type of questions many,many times,particulary regarding VLC and streaming or CS.ian.

[oldfart]

Stickies or tutorials .. I wrote mine because there weren't any, and people had helped me sort my box out. So I thought it only fair to share what I learnt. Sometimes I find stickies diffcult to follow, because as you said, lots of people contribute and you loose the plot half way through.
But on the other side, like Dave is having a problem, if loads of people help, then different issues get resolved along the way.
So - over to you Ian .. feel like writing a tutorial on tuning??