6900 (and 6800) Picture grain - Advice ?

[Skypilot]

My old Echostar died a week ago and my local Sat shop gave me a 6800 to try.
I noticed the pictures weren't as smooth but assumed a bit of tweaking with the settings would sort it out.

I only kept the 6800 for 24 hours and opted for the 6900 for the extras functions.
The 6900 is exactly the same - slight visible grain.
It's odd because the picture is strong, if that makes sense and I'm not getting any any other symptoms.
I've tried every combination of settings and connections I can.
I originally used S.Vid to the amp but changed to Component - no difference. I also compared them against HDMI direct to screen. I can't detect any difference even using a test card and zooming.

The only other thing I can think of is the 6900's upscaling which my old receiver didn't have. Is there some way of disabling it so I can see if that makes a difference.

Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated :confused:

[Giga]

you can set resolution with the remote left bottom Vformat cycle trough by pressing again, you should only see big difference on the HDMI if the flatscreen is supporting full HD using scart & S-Video should not show big differences. when using the last 2 switch in A/V Output settings SCART from RGB to CVBS. The Video Format you see there showing is the one you change with the Vformat
I have this allways on 1080i, Screen Format 16:9, Display Format: Pillar Box
All digital enhancements are switched off on flatscreens.
Have 2 6900 HD Super on Samsung UE8090XP and LE40B650 both 40" and have not noticed this graining, not when watching upscaled SD 576i or HD 1080i or 720p

by going over the AMP and using analogue signals you only getting SD from the Technomate. By using the HDMI you should always get the selected resolution 576i, 576p, 720p, 1080i should show on your flatscreen when using the info from your flatscreen.
I have 5 meter HDMI 1.3 cable between Technomate and flatscreen. Is this occuring on all channels all sat locations? The source could play some role, not all signals delivered are of the same quality.

[Skypilot]

Thanks for the reply and suggestions Giga.

My signal strength is running at around 88%.

Maybe grain isn't the best word. It's almost as if the picture is too strong but slightly over processed somehow. In fact I slightly tweaked down the colour and brightness.
It reminds me of when I first got into digital photography and went over the top with sharpening. Other togs will know what I mean.

I've cycled through the Vformat options but couldn't notice any difference so I've left it on 1080i. The screen shows that it is getting (SD channels) at 576i

When my Echo died I lost my positioner so I'm parked on Hotbird at the moment and can't find any fta HD on there, so all my viewing is SD stuff.
In fact it is the better channels that it made me notice the problem, Private Spice or Dorcel for example, which are normally silky smooth.

My plasma is 60" which is great (normally) but does make it hypercritical in regards to PQ.

[holmroad]

Well I was always tought to turn off the colour on a new TV when setting it up, then firstly set up a 'good' b & w picture, usually with a much lower contrast that the telly came with, before gradually filtering in the clour - this way I get pretty near perfect pictures, whether on SD or HD!

Manufacturers nearly always supply tvs with contrast set miles too high - plus clour too, so more often than not the distortion thus produced sometimes also gives a slightly blurred picture too as a result!

Never fails for me! :respect-055:

[Skypilot]

Well I was always tought to turn off the colour on a new TV when setting it up, then firstly set up a 'good' b & w picture, usually with a much lower contrast that the telly came with, before gradually filtering in the clour - this way I get pretty near perfect pictures, whether on SD or HD!

Manufacturers nearly always supply tvs with contrast set miles too high - plus clour too, so more often than not the distortion thus produced sometimes also gives a slightly blurred picture too as a result!

Never fails for me! :respect-055:

Not my Plasma - I've had that for nearly 2 years, it's perfectly set up and ISF calibrated.

It's the 6900 that I tweaked the colour settings on as they were too in your face.

[Giga]

don't you have a film modus on your plasma?
I never used Color Adjustment on Technomate, have it on default B:15, Cont.:15, Color 15, my flatscreen save settings / port. So I can leave all video sources at their default setting and make adjustments on the flatscreen.
and did use the settings from this review:
LE40B650:

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Samsung-LE40B650/Settings.htm
Elements of Picture Quality:

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Article/Elements-Of-Picture-Quality.php
perhaps your plasma is reviewed there to? Otherwise AVS.
Black Tone: off
Dynamic contrast: off
Digital Noise Reduction: off
HDMI Blacklevel: off
200 Hz Motion Plus: smoothly (set for fast movement)
making changes: 1 by 1, take notes so you know what steps you made

On picture side if AMP is not having HDMI in/out leave it out of the equation
Can't help you much further as my viewing experience is with Samsung LCD & LED

[Skypilot]

Thanks again Giga but def not the plasma of which I'm a bit of a techo nut.
It's just sat stuff that fazes me :D
It's probably just characteristics of the machine.

Any advice on my other thread re- timer/channel change problems Mr G :D

[Giga]

you're miss reading my flatscreen advice! There is only these 3 settings on technomate to adjust what goes to the flatscreen. You have far greater control on the flatscreen and should have normally independent control on each input to it, check also if you are using the correct HDMI input on your screen (some could have other possibilities) I'm on a HDMI input not one for Computers or DVI usage.

this still makes me wondering;

I've cycled through the Vformat options but couldn't notice any difference so I've left it on 1080i. The screen shows that it is getting (SD channels) at 576i
is this when you press info on the Technomate remote or pressing Info on your flatscreen? Your flatscreen should show 1920x1080i

[Skypilot]

you're miss reading my flatscreen advice! There is only these 3 settings on technomate to adjust what goes to the flatscreen. You have far greater control on the flatscreen and should have normally independent control on each input to it, check also if you are using the correct HDMI input on your screen (some could have other possibilities) I'm on a HDMI input not one for Computers or DVI usage.

this still makes me wondering;

is this when you press info on the Technomate remote or pressing Info on your flatscreen? Your flatscreen should show 1920x1080i

Yes, you're right, I do have independent control on each input and have done some tweaking on there such as DNR etc.

My plasma shows 576i but it would as I am normally viewing via my Panny recorder.
Thats why I made the earlier observation that I noticed no discernable difference when I compared against the 6900 connected direct to the plasma via HDMI.
I compared by switching from the 6900 via Recorder input to the 6900 direct via HDMI input.

[holmroad]

Not my Plasma - I've had that for nearly 2 years, it's perfectly set up and ISF calibrated.

It's the 6900 that I tweaked the colour settings on as they were too in your face.

Well I must admit my comments didnt really apply to my beautifil Panasonic TX 54" WiFi plasma which certainly auto sets itself up with no amendments being necessary, I was really talking about 'most' other tvs which often still require the fine-tuning as suggested earlier!
Thank mate!:respect-050:

[Giga]

so your viewing SD only and not viewing TM at 1920x1080i output, should view TM-6900 HD super directly on flatscreen set Technomate HDMI output to the same HD resolution your flatscreen is capable?
576i > 576i
576p > 576p
720p > 720p
1080i > 1080i
it is possible while viewing TM HDMI signal over other devices this could have an influence on image.

Attachment showing picture from HD recording on astra, picture degradation probably due to lack off cpu power on my pc showing this on VLC. In 576i viewing you only have approx. 1/5 of the picture showing.

[Giga]

have uploaded some HD material, so you get can get an impression on the plasma.
https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?t=135346
720P (171 MB,1 download) or 1080i (650MB, 4 downloads)
connect TM straight to plasma and select 720p on technomate, should see a difference:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Common_Video_Resolutions_2.svg/500px-Common_Video_Resolutions_2.svg.pn g
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/HD_vs_SD_resolutions.png