Signal / Motor Issues

[ILM16]

Issue 1:
I already have an 80cm dish + motor, the issue is when it rains I lose my signal on Viasat Hockey/Sport [Sweden that is, the Norway channel is fine in light rain]. The BER hits over 15k.

I've tried nudging the motor each way, it makes no difference.

Heavy rain and the Xtra PL channels go down.

In clear weather, or just cloud cover, the Xtra PL channels have a BER of <1k, whilst the Hockey & Sport channels are <3k.

Any thoughts or guidance on what I can do? Wanted to know if a 1m dish would do the trick?

Issue 2:
I currently have 4.8E stored on my DM500 in motor settings.

I try nudging it either way to get a better signal, which happens. I 'store' the location again and exit. If I then change the channel from say Viasat Hockey to Viasat Motor, the DreamBox tells me to 'Wait whilst the motor moves to 4.8E' and the dish moves slightly.

I then went back to motor set up and under 'mode' chose 'recalculate', again nudging the dish into a better position. I clicked 'recalc' and exited, changed channel again and the same thing happened, the dish moved back.

Can someone help me? I'm getting annoyed with it!


Would appreciate all and any help.

[echelon]

Issue 1:
I already have an 80cm dish + motor, the issue is when it rains I lose my signal on Viasat Hockey/Sport [Sweden that is, the Norway channel is fine in light rain]. The BER hits over 15k.

I've tried nudging the motor each way, it makes no difference.

Heavy rain and the Xtra PL channels go down.

In clear weather, or just cloud cover, the Xtra PL channels have a BER of <1k, whilst the Hockey & Sport channels are <3k.

Any thoughts or guidance on what I can do? Wanted to know if a 1m dish would do the trick?

Issue 2:
I currently have 4.8E stored on my DM500 in motor settings.

I try nudging it either way to get a better signal, which happens. I 'store' the location again and exit. If I then change the channel from say Viasat Hockey to Viasat Motor, the DreamBox tells me to 'Wait whilst the motor moves to 4.8E' and the dish moves slightly.

I then went back to motor set up and under 'mode' chose 'recalculate', again nudging the dish into a better position. I clicked 'recalc' and exited, changed channel again and the same thing happened, the dish moved back.

Can someone help me? I'm getting annoyed with it!


Would appreciate all and any help.

1) not much point passing on the info above without giving an indication of your location which is highly relevant to reception of any satellite or transponders

2) also its important to state if you are using usals or diseqc v1.2

[ILM16]

1) not much point passing on the info above without giving an indication of your location which is highly relevant to reception of any satellite or transponders

2) also its important to state if you are using usals or diseqc v1.2

1) Sorry, I'm in Manchester.

2) Diseqc V1.2

[clive01]

80cm is very small for viasat, not even sure a meter would be great, it would help, i would say at least a 1.2 meter dish is needed for viasat for good reception in most weather

A friend in Liverpool has a 1.2 meter and get viasat ok, as long as its not throwing it down with rain, light rain is not a problem.

[echelon]

80cm is very small for viasat, not even sure a meter would be great, it would help, i would say at least a 1.2 meter dish is needed for viasat for good reception in most weather

A friend in Liverpool has a 1.2 meter and get viasat ok, as long as its not throwing it down with rain, light rain is not a problem.

agree with the last post , I have a 110cm triax dish , in manchester too , and although I would say that using a better lnb and larger dish would improve matters , you cannot complain about poor reception in manchester when the satellite footprint is aimed at scandinavia and we are on the edges and suffer from dropout when the sat is on batteries etc , which if I remember correctly its also on an inclined orbit which probably accounts for the shift he sees when recalculating the diseqc position , seeing as its in a figure of 8 and his system is unable to track it

basically , if you want better reception its either get a much larger dish , or move eastwards , the further eastwards you go the better it will be , and the more stable despite the inclined orbit

frankly , what you are seeing is standard for us in the western uk , and getting annoyed wont help , as it was never intended for us , and has been this way since it was sirius and using d2mac or filmnet decoders etc

I am not sure why the OP thinks he should be getting excellent reception at all times , or which numpty has told him he will !

I even lost sly a few times recently , once a week ago , due to extremely heavy rain , and that is using a satellite focussed onto the uk , and using a sly zone 2 dish as well

ps:- having re-read post 1 again , I fail to see why you are pressing "recalculate" , as doing that surely recalculates the position from zero ?

I would have thought you should store the new position into memory , not recalculate

I would suggest you look up the "recalculate" option and find out what it means exactly

[ILM16]

80cm is very small for viasat, not even sure a meter would be great, it would help, i would say at least a 1.2 meter dish is needed for viasat for good reception in most weather

A friend in Liverpool has a 1.2 meter and get viasat ok, as long as its not throwing it down with rain, light rain is not a problem.

I'm looking at a Penta 85cm with Inverto Black Ultra LNB, that should help a bit?


agree with the last post , I have a 110cm triax dish , in manchester too , and although I would say that using a better lnb and larger dish would improve matters , you cannot complain about poor reception in manchester when the satellite footprint is aimed at scandinavia and we are on the edges and suffer from dropout when the sat is on batteries etc , which if I remember correctly its also on an inclined orbit which probably accounts for the shift he sees when recalculating the diseqc position , seeing as its in a figure of 8 and his system is unable to track it

basically , if you want better reception its either get a much larger dish , or move eastwards , the further eastwards you go the better it will be , and the more stable despite the inclined orbit

frankly , what you are seeing is standard for us in the western uk , and getting annoyed wont help , as it was never intended for us , and has been this way since it was sirius and using d2mac or filmnet decoders etc

I am not sure why the OP thinks he should be getting excellent reception at all times , or which numpty has told him he will !

I even lost sly a few times recently , once a week ago , due to extremely heavy rain , and that is using a satellite focussed onto the uk , and using a sly zone 2 dish as well

ps:- having re-read post 1 again , I fail to see why you are pressing "recalculate" , as doing that surely recalculates the position from zero ?

I would have thought you should store the new position into memory , not recalculate

I would suggest you look up the "recalculate" option and find out what it means exactly

I don't think I should get excellent reception at all times, just wanted tips on how to improve reception. I understand the front print is not aimed for us. :)

I've read that 'recalculate' on the dreambox is to reposition the dish for a satellite. Otherwise I don't know how to nudge it once stored. Deleting the position and re-adding it does not work.

Edit: I should have said it's been fine for about a year now, it's only started being an issue lately.

[echelon]

I'm looking at a Penta 85cm with Inverto Black Ultra LNB, that should help a bit?



I don't think I should get excellent reception at all times, just wanted tips on how to improve reception. I understand the front print is not aimed for us. :)

I've read that 'recalculate' on the dreambox is to reposition the dish for a satellite. Otherwise I don't know how to nudge it once stored. Deleting the position and re-adding it does not work.

Edit: I should have said it's been fine for about a year now, it's only started being an issue lately.

in that case yes a bigger dish like a 110cm and a better lnb like the ultra black should help matters , but there wont be any guarantees with them , not for the uk

and it wont help you track the figure of 8 inclined orbit either

as for the recalculate , when you tell a box to recalculate it tries to recalculate from your stored zero point , from what I remember , so its not surprising to me that using recalculate is changing your best position , and deleting and readding wont help as its the stored position that you need to change

as I said before , you need to find , and store , your best position for each and every satellite when using diseqc v1.2 , and not use recalculate as that tries to recalculate every other sat position from your stored zero point

how you do that on your dreambox I cannot tell you , but it doesnt mean I am incorrect , it means you havent studied your dreambox well enough

in which case you should post a question in the dreambox newbie section here , detailing the box , image used , and any other relevant information so that somebody can tell you how to find and store satellites manually

lastly , if its only happened recently , its proebably due to the earths position , as discussed in this thread here where other members have mentioned similar issues

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?151420-Viasat-signal-drop-off-after-5pm-on-4.8-E

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?151988-Signal-quality-drops-off-at-night

so I am not sure why you didnt read and take note of the above threads , as I would say all the issues I have posted about are typical in what you are trying to achieve , and that is good reception 24/7 of a satellite in inclined orbit where you are situated on the fringe of the reception beam and are subject to the known problems associated with it

so yes , try a bigger dish and ultra black lnb , and if that still gives problems on 4.8e then its either accept it or move eastwards for better reception

its also worth noting that similar UK reception posts existed when members were trying to get 7.2w , leading to a flurry of posts now that atlantic bird 7 has entered the fray

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?151802-Atlantic-Bird-7

the inclined orbit wasnt an issue , but as you can see the changes in the satellite swapout have led to members testing 7.2w from different parts of the uk with varying results

and had you been further west in ireland like sat-a-light you may find you get problems on 4.8e AND 7.2w

[ILM16]

in that case yes a bigger dish like a 110cm and a better lnb like the ultra black should help matters , but there wont be any guarantees with them , not for the uk

and it wont help you track the figure of 8 inclined orbit either

as for the recalculate , when you tell a box to recalculate it tries to recalculate from your stored zero point , from what I remember , so its not surprising to me that using recalculate is changing your best position , and deleting and readding wont help as its the stored position that you need to change

as I said before , you need to find , and store , your best position for each and every satellite when using diseqc v1.2 , and not use recalculate as that tries to recalculate every other sat position from your stored zero point

how you do that on your dreambox I cannot tell you , but it doesnt mean I am incorrect , it means you havent studied your dreambox well enough

in which case you should post a question in the dreambox newbie section here , detailing the box , image used , and any other relevant information so that somebody can tell you how to find and store satellites manually

lastly , if its only happened recently , its proebably due to the earths position , as discussed in this thread here where other members have mentioned similar issues

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?151420-Viasat-signal-drop-off-after-5pm-on-4.8-E

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?151988-Signal-quality-drops-off-at-night

so I am not sure why you didnt read and take note of the above threads , as I would say all the issues I have posted about are typical in what you are trying to achieve , and that is good reception 24/7 of a satellite in inclined orbit where you are situated on the fringe of the reception beam and are subject to the known problems associated with it

so yes , try a bigger dish and ultra black lnb , and if that still gives problems on 4.8e then its either accept it or move eastwards for better reception

its also worth noting that similar UK reception posts existed when members were trying to get 7.2w , leading to a flurry of posts now that atlantic bird 7 has entered the fray

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?151802-Atlantic-Bird-7

the inclined orbit wasnt an issue , but as you can see the changes in the satellite swapout have led to members testing 7.2w from different parts of the uk with varying results

and had you been further west in ireland like sat-a-light you may find you get problems on 4.8e AND 7.2w

Firstly thanks for the help.

Secondly, regarding 'recalculate' on the DM500, I've asked about and people have said once you store a position it's very difficult to change it, most DM500s just won't accept it! I shall be investing in a VU+ Duo.

Thirdly, I did read those threads. I'm slightly confused by 'inclined' orbit? I realise there are known issues as this satellite is not intended for the UK, but as I said it's more about increasing reception through things I can do. :)

May I ask, did you put up your dish yourself?

[echelon]

Firstly thanks for the help.

Secondly, regarding 'recalculate' on the DM500, I've asked about and people have said once you store a position it's very difficult to change it, most DM500s just won't accept it! I shall be investing in a VU+ Duo.

Thirdly, I did read those threads. I'm slightly confused by 'inclined' orbit? I realise there are known issues as this satellite is not intended for the UK, but as I said it's more about increasing reception through things I can do. :)

May I ask, did you put up your dish yourself?

yes you may ask

and yes I did put up my motorised dish myself ( with help from my best m8 and brother too ) , as well as others , one of which I posted a picture of a few years ago when I was experimenting at using 4 lnb,s on a zone 2 dish

I still think you need to put up a post as regards storing the diseqc position on your dreambox , in the dreambox section , as somebody must have done it before , given the age of the dm500 boxes , you cannot be the only one who has tried this , storing the position locks it into the motor itself , and the image used may form a part of that problem too

"inclined orbit" has been discussed many times over the years , and a google search would explain it to you better than any lay member can , but the point is that a standard system cannot track the figure of 8 we see here on the fringes if we were able to track it , whereas this inclined orbit does not show or have any real effect for those in scandinavia , which is why you wont get them complaining about 4.8e , although we do get them complaining about reception on 28.2e , as they get severe dropoff in their locations

so my point was that even if you pay the money out for a 110cm dish , ultrablack lnb , and maybe a darkmotor , there may be no discernable difference in the problems that you are experiencing , meaning that your aspiration bar is set far too high and needs to be lowered , in other words do not expect 28.2e type reception in manchester from 4.8e aimed at scandinavia , as the problem has existed for many years and there may be nothing you can do about it , apart from move to scandinavia ;)

you can see that by them changing to W3C at 15.8e and to atlantic bird 7 at 7.2w they have improved our signals here in the uk , and until they do the same at 4.8e ( whenever that may be ) we are stuck with these issues of battery power , inclined orbit , solar wind , and all manner of manifestations that affect reception , especially when the reception varies due to the figure of 8 "wobble" we see here in the uk. ie- which part of the figure of 8 do you lock onto ? and at what time of the day ? or what time of the year ?

you do not have to understand it , all you have to know is that you will get issues with it , as explained in this recent thread on the same subject

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?151420-Viasat-signal-drop-off-after-5pm-on-4.8-E

many people have no idea how tv signals get to their tv,s , or how the tuner processes them to give tv pictures , but they watch the telly , and complain when bad weather knocks the signals out. its not always important to know the business fully like steven hawking may do , just that it exists and you make allowances for it

[ILM16]

yes you may ask

and yes I did put up my motorised dish myself ( with help from my best m8 and brother too ) , as well as others , one of which I posted a picture of a few years ago when I was experimenting at using 4 lnb,s on a zone 2 dish

I still think you need to put up a post as regards storing the diseqc position on your dreambox , in the dreambox section , as somebody must have done it before , given the age of the dm500 boxes , you cannot be the only one who has tried this , storing the position locks it into the motor itself , and the image used may form a part of that problem too

"inclined orbit" has been discussed many times over the years , and a google search would explain it to you better than any lay member can , but the point is that a standard system cannot track the figure of 8 we see here on the fringes if we were able to track it , whereas this inclined orbit does not show or have any real effect for those in scandinavia , which is why you wont get them complaining about 4.8e , although we do get them complaining about reception on 28.2e , as they get severe dropoff in their locations

so my point was that even if you pay the money out for a 110cm dish , ultrablack lnb , and maybe a darkmotor , there may be no discernable difference in the problems that you are experiencing , meaning that your aspiration bar is set far too high and needs to be lowered , in other words do not expect 28.2e type reception in manchester from 4.8e aimed at scandinavia , as the problem has existed for many years and there may be nothing you can do about it , apart from move to scandinavia ;)

you can see that by them changing to W3C at 15.8e and to atlantic bird 7 at 7.2w they have improved our signals here in the uk , and until they do the same at 4.8e ( whenever that may be ) we are stuck with these issues of battery power , inclined orbit , solar wind , and all manner of manifestations that affect reception , especially when the reception varies due to the figure of 8 "wobble" we see here in the uk. ie- which part of the figure of 8 do you lock onto ? and at what time of the day ? or what time of the year ?

you do not have to understand it , all you have to know is that you will get issues with it , as explained in this recent thread on the same subject

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?151420-Viasat-signal-drop-off-after-5pm-on-4.8-E

many people have no idea how tv signals get to their tv,s , or how the tuner processes them to give tv pictures , but they watch the telly , and complain when bad weather knocks the signals out. its not always important to know the business fully like steven hawking may do , just that it exists and you make allowances for it

Once again thanks for the response.

I'm getting the hang of what you're saying.

I shall post in the DM section about the issue with the motor.

I will try a better LNB and maybe a bigger dish to see if that helps, but I do understand that it's not certain to make the issues go away. My aspiration is really for Viasat Hockey as I love NHL and they've recently gained the rights to show every game (when they can, depending on the NHL providing them with all feeds). I'm not expecting the same level of reception at all, it's clear to me that 4.8E is aimed at Scandinavia. I just want to see the same level I am able to get with the Xtra PL channels as with the Hockey channel. That's not the greatest level either, which I accept, in heavy rain it goes down too. Just in light rain it's fine, whereas the Hockey channel is not. My aim is only set at a level that I've already received with channels on the same satellite from the same company. :)

I will report back here with any improvements (or any declines!) :D

[echelon]

no problem

I checked the signal and quality levels earlier on my triax 110cm dish using my spiderbox and the channels you complained more about are a lower signal and lower quality for me than other channels on that satellite , with arqiva significantly higher and the extra PL channels a lot lower

obviously I am not decoding them so cannot comment on that aspect

I would think a box with a more sensitive tuner may also help you , as may the bigger dish and ultra black , cant do any harm anyway to have a bigger dish than 80cm when you are looking for 0.8w or 4.8e , 10.0e , 25.8e or some others , whereas 30w , 13e , 16e , 19e , 28.2e , 39e and 42e seem much better reception here in manc

hope it works out for you with the bigger dish + new lnb , and also bear in mind your new vu+ duo may have a better tuner too , it all helps

[ILM16]

no problem

I checked the signal and quality levels earlier on my triax 110cm dish using my spiderbox and the channels you complained more about are a lower signal and lower quality for me than other channels on that satellite , with arqiva significantly higher and the extra PL channels a lot lower

obviously I am not decoding them so cannot comment on that aspect

I would think a box with a more sensitive tuner may also help you , as may the bigger dish and ultra black , cant do any harm anyway to have a bigger dish than 80cm when you are looking for 0.8w or 4.8e , 10.0e , 25.8e or some others , whereas 30w , 13e , 16e , 19e , 28.2e , 39e and 42e seem much better reception here in manc

hope it works out for you with the bigger dish + new lnb , and also bear in mind your new vu+ duo may have a better tuner too , it all helps

So true, I've found that!

Thanks, I'll report back soon.

[digicon]

Just to add i have done a few installs with an 80cm around the Manchester area and with a TM5402HD can pick up the Viasat XPL ch's witha good margin of around 65% snr and in rain drops to around 45% but still wathable with no breakup and that's without a black ultra just the standard rt eco 0.1db LNB.

You really need to be looking at a receiver with a good sensitive tuner a Triax 1.1 with black ultra on your current system will only yield a little more SNR.

[ILM16]

Just to add i have done a few installs with an 80cm around the Manchester area and with a TM5402HD can pick up the Viasat XPL ch's witha good margin of around 65% snr and in rain drops to around 45% but still wathable with no breakup and that's without a black ultra just the standard rt eco 0.1db LNB.

You really need to be looking at a receiver with a good sensitive tuner a Triax 1.1 with black ultra on your current system will only yield a little more SNR.

Do you still install?

When the rain came that night, I tried my DM800HD. Now I was able to actually see a picture but the break up was too much, it wasn't watch-able by any means.

Thoughts on the VU+ Duo, I've heard it's more sensitive too.

[digicon]

Do you still install?

When the rain came that night, I tried my DM800HD. Now I was able to actually see a picture but the break up was too much, it wasn't watch-able by any means.

Thoughts on the VU+ Duo, I've heard it's more sensitive too.


yes i do install and based locally to manchester, the VU+ duo is another good receiver and you may fair better with that than your DM just curious is the DM a clone or an original as this could be a deciding factor also, the Technomates although not a Linux box have one of the best sensitive tuners i have come across.

[ILM16]

yes i do install and based locally to manchester, the VU+ duo is another good receiver and you may fair better with that than your DM just curious is the DM a clone or an original as this could be a deciding factor also, the Technomates although not a Linux box have one of the best sensitive tuners i have come across.

It's a clone, I really want a VU+ but I don't have so much money at the moment!

[digicon]

It's a clone, I really want a VU+ but I don't have so much money at the moment!

Well that could explain some of the problem also your dish could need some slight adjustment, when you had the install did you get decent quality coax used or the normal cheap RG6.

[mister-t]

although i am not from the manchester area,walsall west midlands here,viasat hockey,old 80cm dish,aint got a clue what lnb i have lol,raining here now,spiderbox 9000hd signal 67% quality 36%
no breakups at all,in fact i dont normally have any probs with this sat unless it is throwing it down with rain,so maybe as suggested alighnment problem

mister-t

[ILM16]

Well that could explain some of the problem also your dish could need some slight adjustment, when you had the install did you get decent quality coax used or the normal cheap RG6.

It was normal cheap coax cable.


although i am not from the manchester area,walsall west midlands here,viasat hockey,old 80cm dish,aint got a clue what lnb i have lol,raining here now,spiderbox 9000hd signal 67% quality 36%
no breakups at all,in fact i dont normally have any probs with this sat unless it is throwing it down with rain,so maybe as suggested alighnment problem

mister-t

You have a more sensitive tuner as well?

I think it's alignment myself as you're not much further east than Manchester.

[Barney]

Soulds like alignment problem to me aswell ..but cheap coax cable + dodgy Clone box is not an ideal combo to be fair in order to recieve a sat that is pretty much borderline at best of times .
i sometimes get viasat football channl occasionally when clear sky and no rain but with broken pixelated pics on hockey but Akta RO is very strong signal always .

But for what its worth i'd suggest at least the inverto black ultra LNB and perhaps a 1.1m dish as echelon suggested..inverto black ultra has excellent gain for weak signals but after that if still no luck try if possible better quality coax cable ,
i replaced my coax cable last week because i had some real dificulty with 16e channls on my 1.2m channl master dish with inverto black ultra LNB but after new cable was fitted ive not had any such issues and signal now is really strong even in crap weather conditions .

-----
Barney

[ILM16]

Soulds like alignment problem to me aswell ..but cheap coax cable + dodgy Clone box is not an ideal combo to be fair in order to recieve a sat that is pretty much borderline at best of times .
i sometimes get viasat football channl occasionally when clear sky and no rain but with broken pixelated pics on hockey but Akta RO is very strong signal always .

But for what its worth i'd suggest at least the inverto black ultra LNB and perhaps a 1.1m dish as echelon suggested..inverto black ultra has excellent gain for weak signals but after that if still no luck try if possible better quality coax cable ,
i replaced my coax cable last week because i had some real dificulty with 16e channls on my 1.2m channl master dish with inverto black ultra LNB but after new cable was fitted ive not had any such issues and signal now is really strong even in crap weather conditions .

-----
Barney

Thanks for the response Barney, where abouts are you located mate?

[Bbigfoot]

Hi ILM16,

Not shure if this has been covered, (Long posts).
I had a low Sig Quality on Intelsat 10-02 (Next to Thor).
It was on a Zone 1 45cm mesh dish (S@Y), the LNB was set
for 28e. DIgi Film 1 was pulling in 45% Sig Quality, tweeked the
LNB and up the Sig Quality went to 60%.

The rule for a motorised Dish I think is LNB Vertical with Dish and
motor movement adjusts scew automaticaly.

Try tweeking your LNB on the poorest Signal to up It.
Then check other Sat to see if your happy with there Signal.

BF.

[ILM16]

Hi ILM16,

Not shure if this has been covered, (Long posts).
I had a low Sig Quality on Intelsat 10-02 (Next to Thor).
It was on a Zone 1 45cm mesh dish (S@Y), the LNB was set
for 28e. DIgi Film 1 was pulling in 45% Sig Quality, tweeked the
LNB and up the Sig Quality went to 60%.

The rule for a motorised Dish I think is LNB Vertical with Dish and
motor movement adjusts scew automaticaly.

Try tweeking your LNB on the poorest Signal to up It.
Then check other Sat to see if your happy with there Signal.

BF.

I've ordered a Black Ultra and so will try that.

[mister-t]

you said you tried moving the dish slightly side to side? have you tried slightly tilting dish up or down? only a fraction at a time though

mister-t

[ILM16]

you said you tried moving the dish slightly side to side? have you tried slightly tilting dish up or down? only a fraction at a time though

mister-t

I've not tried that, when I said I tried moving the dish side to side, that was via the motor - not physically using my hands.

[mister-t]

I've not tried that, when I said I tried moving the dish side to side, that was via the motor - not physically using my hands.

yes thats how i understood reply,but if you can try slightly pulling on the dish with your hands,get someone to help with signal meter on reciever if you have no hand held signal meter
gently push dish up or down to see if signal gets better or worse

mister-t

[ILM16]

yes thats how i understood reply,but if you can try slightly pulling on the dish with your hands,get someone to help with signal meter on reciever if you have no hand held signal meter
gently push dish up or down to see if signal gets better or worse

mister-t

I'll give that a shot when I've got someone who can help me.