lnb tests ,smart tit ,black ultra ,invacom twin c120,invacom quad c120

[cosworth4x4]

ive been doing a few tests last few weeks/months to try and get the best lnb i can they have been tested on a channel master 1.2 and a dreambox dm800,after each test lnb has been set with meter and channels rescanned on dreambox.

the smart tit has been modified to fit channel master feedhorn ,and the black ultra got the same treatment.


----------------


first test was modified smart tit channel master feed horn v/s black ultra standard feedhorn.

7 west.

jsc 44% 42%
iraqui spo 51% 47%
alsalam 54% 48%
melody 44% 35%(picture break up)
balsalam 51% 46%
kuwautie sp 46% 39%

10 east

acho 61% 61%
nbc russia 67% 74% (only channel the black ultra was stonger on)
ortc 82% 82%

the lnbs were swapped within 10 min and same weather conditions.
i have re uploaded the pictures in case anyone wants to attempt the mod themselves.

[cosworth4x4]

2nd test modified smart tit against modified black ultra.this is done on a different day to the one above but same lnbs swapped within 10 min and conditions the same

7 west.
smart tit / black ultra
jsc 49 % / 45%
iraqi sports 48% / 29%
alsalam 53% / 34%
alforat 38% /38%

10 east

acho 66% / 63%
aden 73% / 66%
nbc russia 69% / 71%
dxb sports 58% / 50%

readings from meter smart tit 26.8 dbm ,black ultra 23.2 dbm.

[cosworth4x4]

a few more pictures from post above would not let me add them all to one post.


last test was putting back up a old invacom twin , invacom quad and then my smart tit (modified).

i only run the test on one sat 7 west.

inverto twin / quad / mod smart tit.

jsc 40% / 43% / 45%
iraqi sports 43% / 40% / 44%
alsalam 50% / 50% / 49%
alforat 37% / 41% / 0%

when i first put up the twin it was nice and dry , by the time i got the quad up it was light rain , by the time the tit was back up , it was heavy rain , and as you can see no signal at all on alforat.

i have one test left to do a modified smart tit / cm feed horn against the standard feedhorn , i didnt have time to do it when i first purchased it , but a new one has arrived today , so will leave a blank post below to add in the results.

[cosworth4x4]

pictures of 2nd mod to black ultra .

this test will now be with standard tit ,moded tit/cm feedhorn and 2nd moded black ultra cm feedhorn.

ok done the test tonight clear sky for a change .

moded tit cm feedhorn, standard tit, 2nd mod to black ultra cm feedhorn.

7 west

iraqi sports 48% , 44% , 44%
oman 36% , 35%-0% breakup,34%-0% break up
kuwaiti sport 36% , 35%-0% break up , 32%-0% break up
alsalam 54% , 52% , 52%
jsc 49% , 41% , 39%
melody aflam 54% , 46% , 47%


10 east

echo 65% , 50% , 58%
nbc russia 68% , 59% , 66%
ortc 86% , 68% , 85%

looks like if you have a channel master 1.2 you need the cm/andrews/raven feedhorn to get the best out of the dish, ive not compaired the results yet from the moded black ultra long to the sort , but dont think there is a lot in it as i thought from before second mod.

black ultra seems better on the stonger signal 10e but weaker ones its is not the best and the invacoms in c120 will beat it .

ill look at the difference in results to see if its worth me shorting the tube on the tit , but at the moment i dont think its worth the effort the tit is well above in results if you prepared to do a little work,if not go for a quad or twin invacom with the correct feedhorn they are not cheep but could be the difference in you getting a channel or not if week.

ive now tested a icecrypt .1 quad (standard ) against the modded smart tit and cm feed horn after this month what sat mag gave it better results than a quad smart tit .found the results were very poor it could be the universal feedhorn was a better match on the dish they used,anyway results below and next ill chop off the head and mount it on the cm feedhorn.

smart tit , icecrypt.

7 west
jsc sports hd 56% 50%
iraqi sports 59% 52%
alsalam 61% 51%

10 east

ortc 44% 28%
syria 52% 43%

clear skys.

[CokeAddict]

Can't wait :D

[satwyn]

what were the results with the lnbfs unmodified without the c120 feed better or worse

[cosworth4x4]

only the black ultra has been tested unmodified, i dont have fair results to give you comparing the black ultra in modified and un modified state , due to the time it takes the tests were done on different days , but can tell you the modified smart tit was better than it both times.

hopefully this weekend i can test the smart tit un modified against the modified one.

but from what i see the black ultra is at the end of all 4 lnbs ,5 if u like to count it modified as well.

but that is on a channel master 1.2 , it could be different on another dish i know poeple say the lnb aint going to make much difference on what you can pick up/see but it made a few channels watch able and that was only the few i tested.

[Zeke]

Did they really call it a smart tit?

I'm going to get slapped if I walk into the shop and ask for her smart tit.

[satwyn]

titanium

[cosworth4x4]

yeah its a smart titanium .1

[ian]

thanks for all your efforts cosworth.

from the above though it seems you are really testing modified feed horns rather than lnb's ?

which from your tests would you consider to be the best c120 twin output lnb mate ?

Ian.

[cosworth4x4]

thanks for all your efforts cosworth.

from the above though it seems you are really testing modified feed horns rather than lnb's ?

which from your tests would you consider to be the best c120 twin output lnb mate ?

Ian.


no im making no modifications to the feedhorns as such, im modifying them to fit on the channel master feedhorn as they are not made in c120 form.
at the moment if you prepaired to do the work then smart tit modded to a c120 fitting, if you just want to buy and bolt on then invacom quad gave slightly better results but it was near enough new the twin is at least 5 years old could be a lot more.

is it a channel master dish you have?

[snakie]

From my side of tests,using the black ultra inverto on offset dishes i got very good results,comparing with other brands.
I dont have the smart tit to make a direct comparison with it,but i dont think the modded horns give the correct wave
to the lnb.

[catseye]

no im making no modifications to the feedhorns as such, im modifying them to fit on the channel master feedhorn as they are not made in c120 form.
at the moment if you prepaired to do the work then smart tit modded to a c120 fitting, if you just want to buy and bolt on then invacom quad gave slightly better results but it was near enough new the twin is at least 5 years old could be a lot more.

is it a channel master dish you have?

Cosworth, roughly whereabouts are you in uk/europe?

[cosworth4x4]

From my side of tests,using the black ultra inverto on offset dishes i got very good results,comparing with other brands.
I dont have the smart tit to make a direct comparison with it,but i dont think the modded horns give the correct wave
to the lnb.

will see when i compair the standard one to the modded one.

[cosworth4x4]

Cosworth, roughly whereabouts are you in uk/europe?

uk south wales.

[ian]

its a fiberglass offset echostar 1.2m.
its over 25yrs old now m8,but i think the channel master is quite similar.

Ian.

[cosworth4x4]

its a fiberglass offset echostar 1.2m.
its over 25yrs old now m8,but i think the channel master is quite similar.

Ian.

ok so it has its own feedhorn with c120 fitting ? hopefully il test the channel master feed horn with modified smart tit against the standard smart tit this weekend ,but at the moment the smart tit modified to fit c120 is defiantly the best.

and im not being anyway bias i have them all here so i can just use what i find to be the best ,i could even keep the quad :biggrinjester:

[mikie8]

i know poeple say the lnb aint going to make much difference on what you can pick up/see but it made a few channels watch able and that was only the few i tested.

i think those people mean the lnb wont make as much difference as a dish size increase . when buying a new full setup .

in all my tesing of lnb's and feedhorns i have found a vast difference . some lnb's tend to match better to some dishes and not others . some lnb's work simular on many dishes . some lnb's have better edge control and can benifit from a little focal adjustment . also lnb's can degrade over time mainly due to water ingress .

this is why tests like this are so important to others with a cm1.2 dish . it gives real numbers to real situations .

edit : is the quad the qdf-031 in the test ?

[cosworth4x4]

yes the quad is the qdf-031,gave good results that one , its was on route to new owner.

and one other point most people dont just go and replace a lnb unless its a good few years old , so a new one is almost guaranteed to give better results .

i think ive upset a few black ultra fans , but they do need to remember on a different dish it could give a lot better results end of the day it has a universal feedhorn to suite all dishes ,dont think you can beat a matched feedhorn.

but the results was still not what i was expecting when i matched it upto the channel master feedhorn.

[snakie]

Im using an FTE Max Evo spectrum + Mer - Ber readings.
Biggest dish i tried the black ultra was on 2.7 offset dish for 28.2E giving me 3db`s more on itv frequency and boosted the MER 2.2db`s up,
making the receiver able to lock.Always talking for fringe reception of 28.2 ( Cyprus ).
I will look how to get a titie and try it also on similar setups.
My thought is that a feehorn can and must be used on lnbs that they are actually made for or in case you remove a part of the original flange on the current lnb.

[cosworth4x4]

Im using an FTE Max Evo spectrum + Mer - Ber readings.
Biggest dish i tried the black ultra was on 2.7 offset dish for 28.2E giving me 3db`s more on itv frequency and boosted the MER 2.2db`s up,
making the receiver able to lock.Always talking for fringe reception of 28.2 ( Cyprus ).
I will look how to get a titie and try it also on similar setups.
My thought is that a feehorn can and must be used on lnbs that they are actually made for or in case you remove a part of the original flange on the current lnb.

ok but the big but is channel master 1.2 as i said from the beginning a different dish is going to give different results on a different day with different weather conditions,reasons i keep the tests to the same day same conditions , this test was to see what was best with my dish and others that use it.

[cosworth4x4]

My thought is that a feehorn can and must be used on lnbs that they are actually made for or in case you remove a part of the original flange on the current lnb.

and im not really sure you understood original posts altho i removed part of the feedhorn it was to bolt it to a channel master feed horn not to then bolt it straight upto the dish.

[snakie]

I saw the photos, i think you need to shorten more the distance on the lnbs.
I dont disagree about your tests for channel master, i just express my view for other dishes as well.
Im more curious to test the tit lnb now to be honest.

P.s:i always like to tweak a little the focal points of the dishes to be sure i get better values ;)

[cosworth4x4]

i can mess about with the black ultra as to be honest its heading for the bin , but im not really sure its going to make any difference the focal point is fixed on the channel master feedhorn as you prob know , so my understanding i could be wrong one it reaches that point its then just feed straight back towards the lnb.

the results with its own feedhorn and the channel master one was lower on both tests.

as long as the standard tit does not turn out to be better than the one with the channel master feedhorn ill be happy with the results,they not lab tests but good enough for me.

:king-041:

[snakie]

Yes, once the signal reaches the focal point then it reflects in the tube till it gets into the dipoles for vertical/horizontal.
What is happening is that the tube must be well designed without differences in the inner diameter and the dipoles must not be too far from the focal point,
neither too near.
On your channel master feed the tube is already long enough, it reminds me the echostar fiberglass dish from mid 90`s (120x140),i think ian has one too.
On that dish again the feed and the tube have a length of about 8 to 10 cm,with the lnb dipoles to be only 5-6 mm away from the flange surface.
So total depth of the lnb hole is around 10mm.
Similar is the Invacom lnb with the depth to be bigger on flange type but less than the ordinary offset lnb,even if you cut and remove a part of the actual feedhorn.
What happens on similar setups is that the original focal point of the dish, is the standard as was before,but because of the differences of the tube length,
you end up having too much noise.
Changing the position of the focal point will lead to using less surface of the dish but more accurate signal with less noise,which of course the result will be seen on difficult frequencies.
I dont have a cam to take some photos about different lnbs to show what i mean, so i hope that the other folks reading understand what i want to say,
besides a photo is a 1000 words :)

[cosworth4x4]

didnt get a chance to compair moded and standard tit the weekend last minute shopping and then **** weather,but i have now made a second mod to the black ultra , ive made it 19 mm to the dipole same as the invacom c120 ,pictures added above post 4.

so its now a 3 way battle again .

if the black ultra improves with this mod ,means i am going to have to also do the tit , :001_07:

[cosworth4x4]

ive just added the results to post 4 .

[Blagi]

I once had a couple of twin Smart **** :D and they gave me all I ever wanted... :D

0.1 dB, gold connectors etc. Very cool! ;)

[CokeAddict]

Well I swapped out my Black Ultra Twin for 1 of these Hybrid Smart Tit twin CM feedhorn jobbies :D

It's been up for a week now, and I haven't touched the dish alignment as it tracks the arc perfectly from 53­e to 45°w and I figured it would be better to just fit the lnb and test.

Well signals have improved on most sats, Astra 1 sly cinema germany for example with the black ultra 82% signal with the hybrid tit 99%, Hotbird sly cinema +24 HD with the black 77% with the hybrid 99%.

Moving to the weaker sats. 26°e Badr ADEN with the black 52% with the hybrid 55%, MBC 1 black 38% hybrid 44%.

7°w JSC Sports +5,6,7,8 with the black 0% (no lock) with the hybrid 45% (lock), MBC1 black 44% hybrid 51%

30°w both pretty much the same very little in it.

45°w RA**** black 38% but badly breaking up, hybrid 41% and watchable

0.8°w (the sat I used to align my dish originally) Telnor testcard black 86% hybrid 97%, bbc HD both 99%

So imo if you happen to have a CM dish and a CM feedhorn doing nothing, then get hold of a smart tit twin lnb and modify it to use the CM feedhorn it's well worth it.

[morten9836]

How much is a fair price for a CM feed?

[cosworth4x4]

seen them go for as low as £30 , but they average the £40/£50 mark on ******* site.

[morten9836]

seen them go for as low as £30 , but they average the £40/£50 mark on ******* site.

Thanks for your reply, but i cant read the name of the site that i can buy them from. Can you send me the name on a pm?

[Barney]

On my 1.2 Channl master offset dish i use inverto black ultra .2db no feedhorn just use LNB in the dish own LNB Holder tested quite a few LNB's when 16e was running really low signal and so few lnb's gave me any signal whatsoever on Digi Alb Films that why i stuck with Inverto Black ultra as it was consistant signal and no pic break up in bad weather ,
i'd sat tit 1 LNB was pretty good aswell but not as much gain , Darkgold Lnb was decent enuff with tests aswell , i did try invacom C120 with Feedhorn was okay but with it being .3db was pretty pathetic in Rain and bad weather .Now i just leave channl master parked on 16e for to check my tring tv card updates and is working .

On my 2 Meter prime Focus Dish ive been using Inverto Black pro .2db LNB with feedhorn minius scaler rings done tests with invacom .3db and inverto white .2db LNB's both were ok but in poor weather Inverto black pro .2db wins everytime and 7w Nilesat is literally impossible to recieve here in Eire NW so no reason for me to change or mess about i guess ,
i was able to get few Viasat channls on my old offset Fortecstar 1.6 dish using Tit 1 LNB and inverto black ultra but havnt used that dish since it wasnt suitable and too exposed to wind where my 1.2 channl master is rock solid in same exposed area .
i dont tend to mess with my dishes anymore since they get me pretty much all i require from 42e to 30w but i am going to install new actuator Arm on my 2 meter dish when weather is suitable and i have free time .
anyways great tests Cosworth m8'y i like those pics and your tests are very much interesting and excellent thread here aswell so Well done and good luck with testing .

-----
Barney

[Barney]

Thanks for your reply, but i cant read the name of the site that i can buy them from. Can you send me the name on a pm? e- b-a-y is likely what cosworth was try too put only forum does tend to auto Censor lot of words unfortunatly .

---
Barney

[catseye]

On my 1.2 Channl master offset dish i use inverto black ultra .2db no feedhorn just use LNB in the dish own LNB Holder tested quite a few LNB's when 16e was running really low signal and so few lnb's gave me any signal whatsoever on Digi Alb Films that why i stuck with Inverto Black ultra as it was consistant signal and no pic break up in bad weather ,
i'd sat tit 1 LNB was pretty good aswell but not as much gain , Darkgold Lnb was decent enuff with tests aswell , i did try invacom C120 with Feedhorn was okay but with it being .3db was pretty pathetic in Rain and bad weather .Now i just leave channl master parked on 16e for to check my tring tv card updates and is working .

On my 2 Meter prime Focus Dish ive been using Inverto Black pro .2db LNB with feedhorn minius scaler rings done tests with invacom .3db and inverto white .2db LNB's both were ok but in poor weather Inverto black pro .2db wins everytime and 7w Nilesat is literally impossible to recieve here in Eire NW so no reason for me to change or mess about i guess ,
i was able to get few Viasat channls on my old offset Fortecstar 1.6 dish using Tit 1 LNB and inverto black ultra but havnt used that dish since it wasnt suitable and too exposed to wind where my 1.2 channl master is rock solid in same exposed area .
i dont tend to mess with my dishes anymore since they get me pretty much all i require from 42e to 30w but i am going to install new actuator Arm on my 2 meter dish when weather is suitable and i have free time .
anyways great tests Cosworth m8'y i like those pics and your tests are very much interesting and excellent thread here aswell so Well done and good luck with testing .

-----
Barney

Hey Barney, any chance of treating us to some pics of your dishes & lnbs m8??

Cheers & good to hear your on the mend-please dont climb any ladders though to use your cam!

[echelon]

e- b-a-y is likely what cosworth was try too put only forum does tend to auto Censor lot of words unfortunatly .

---
Barney

its not unfortunate , its actually quite deliberate :D

[CokeAddict]

its not its actually quite deliberate :D

Thats unfortunate lol :D

[Barney]

lol's !! okay ..understandable of course thnxs Echelon ,
anyhows back on Topic and yes of course i shall take some pics of my set up 1.2 Channl master Dish and my prime focus 2 meter dish i do this hopefully this weekend weather permitting if not then for sure on Monday .
As i said i use inverto black pro 0.2db C120 lnb on prime focus dish minus the Scaler rings which do decrease my signals a lot .
I Use Inverto black ultra 0.2db LNB on my offset 1.2m channl master dish which for me is running really superb on 16e now .
i have changed and installed a brand new actuator on my channl master dish and i have a real good heavy duty 24" Actuator ready to go on my prime focus dish at the min its got just a normal standard 24" actuator which is fine for past year or so but weather wasnt permitting me to do a lot lately typical irish weather i guess ,lol's !!!
but not to worry is easy to take pics of my set up because its all ground mounted with enuff Cement to withstand any amount of weather that was well tested at the start of this year when we had 143 kmph violent storms hit us with a vengance .
anyhow somtime over the weekend or monday i get buzy with a camera and get some pics taken for everyone to see .
cheers guys .
----
Barney

[cosworth4x4]

looks like you get the same crap weather as me in wales, :D

[nadz123]

Hi
At the moment Im using a standard Titanium LNB. Looking at the tests. In previous sites - I ordered a
INVERTO BLACK ULTRA SINGLE LNB IDLB-SINL40-ULTRA-OPP - As user are saying this is better.

How much would a feed horn cost for my Channel Master? Cosworth or CokeAddict if U made one of the CM Tit1 super LNB for my 1.2 to get the best of my dish. What would it cost?

Any Advise and help would be greateful

[CokeAddict]

A feedhorn will cost between £35 and £65 from what I have seen / paid, as for doing the conversion, you will need to speak with cosworth4x4 as I got him to do mine for me :)

[nadz123]

Thanks cokeAddict - I cant sent him a PM as I dont have that many post on here, but if u can send him a message let him know im interested
Thanks mate :)

[digicon]

you can also use the Gibertini feedhorn on the channel master as its classed as universal and has the exact same F/D ratio as the channel master 1.2, available for around £25

[cosworth4x4]

Thanks cokeAddict - I cant sent him a PM as I dont have that many post on here, but if u can send him a message let him know im interested
Thanks mate :)

once you get hold of a proper cm feedhorn (or raven /andrews ) as they all the same let me know ill do one for you , if you want to save money with a gibertini then id say you may as well just bolt up a good universal lnb ,the cm feedhorn is perfectly matched to the dish.

[digicon]

once you get hold of a proper cm feedhorn (or raven /andrews ) as they all the same let me know ill do one for you , if you want to save money with a gibertini then id say you may as well just bolt up a good universal lnb ,the cm feedhorn is perfectly matched to the dish.

And so is the Gibertini feedhorn i have used one on a CM 1.2 and tested it again'st the CM official and there is 0 difference, Also why is everyone converting Black Ultra LNBF's to fit a feedhorn when you can get the Inverto Black pro Flange which is identical @ 0.2db and costs £10 from most suppliers.

[satwyn]

buy a bigger dish better than fiddling with miracle lnbs

[cosworth4x4]

And so is the Gibertini feedhorn i have used one on a CM 1.2 and tested it again'st the CM official and there is 0 difference, Also why is everyone converting Black Ultra LNBF's to fit a feedhorn when you can get the Inverto Black pro Flange which is identical @ 0.2db and costs £10 from most suppliers.

so you are saying the black pro is exactly the same as the black ultra ?
you have a gibertini feedhorn to send me to test i will return to you ,as you do not have me convinced 1 bit that a universal feedhorn is going to be as good as one made for a specific dish .

[cosworth4x4]

yeah wont argue with you there providing the bigger dish is good quality.

i sold a 1.2 channel master last year to a guy that went and bought one of them massive dishes from ****** either 1.5 or 1.8 cant recall , the installer told him to get rid as he could not even get a signal on a week sat that the cm 1.2 was pulling in.

so cheep crap bigger not always best , :respect-055:

plus not always a option for a bigger dish so need to get the max out of what you have.

[satwyn]

yes agree would not recommend the fortec 1.8m but there are others the gibertini 1.5m should pull in those weak signals

[digicon]

so you are saying the black pro is exactly the same as the black ultra ?
you have a gibertini feedhorn to send me to test i will return to you ,as you do not have me convinced 1 bit that a universal feedhorn is going to be as good as one made for a specific dish .

I dont have a spare they are used on jobs, The gibertini and the CM feedhorn are both classed as universal due to the fact that both 1.2m dishes have the same F/D ratio of 0.6-0.7 so no difference.

Inverto make many different branded LNBF's as well as C120 as from what i read and have tested both the Ultra and the Pro are identical one is an LNBF the other a C120, you yourself should know that they do a premium range in the Black series LNBF they also do a similar range in the C120's as well called the White Tech again both are 0.3db with the Ultra and the Pro being there top class range.

[cosworth4x4]

Highly recommended for Raven (Andrews / Channel Master) 1.2m, 1.8m and 2.4m dishes. Use this feedhorn with a C120 flange LNB for
better matching and improved signal to noise ratio compared to a 40mm clamp LNB of equivalent (or lower) noise level.
Why buy a high quality Raven (Andrews / Channel Master) dish and use a compromise 40mm mass market LNB which has
a universal feedhorn / cap and is not designed for a particular dish? Taking a 1.2m dish as an example. A 40mm LNB
may only illuminate 1.1m of dish area (not enough) or perhaps 1.3m of dish area (i.e. including noise around the edges).
With a matched feedhorn, exactly 1.2m of dish area is illuminated.

above taken from a well respected and well know sat dealers website , f/d is only one aspect of the feedhorn,and ill class the universal gibertini feedhorn in the same class (universal).

so you got test results for the pro com-paired to the ultra then, not that it makes any difference as the smart titanium was better on the cm 1.2 with cm feedhorn.

[digicon]

Also for that well respected over priced site when on the feedhorn page click the gibertini and it takes you to the same page.


The picture below shows the feedhorn on a 1.8m Raven dish in Spain.
Customers have also reported excellent results when the Raven feedhorn was used with a Gibertini 1.5m dish.
Dish spare part - the plastic 40mm clamp Raven feed support boss which holds the feedhorn or LNB is available below

from the same website and if you see the pictures you will also note the Black Pro C120 and nothing else.

[cosworth4x4]

Also for that well respected over priced site when on the feedhorn page click the gibertini and it takes you to the same page.



from the same website and if you see the pictures you will also note the Black Pro C120 and nothing else.


yes black pro available off the shelf , black ultra in c120 form is not .
smart tit also not available in c120 .

what this whole topic was originally about , if people want to fit gibertinis and off the shelf lnbs then they are welcome too.

but i will still stick buy my original findings best option is original cm feedhorn and smart tit modded lnb.

anyone who has a spare gibertini feedhorn to send me to test i will return it and post the results here.

if it does turn out to be better then ill buy one and sell on the cm feedhorn as ill be well in pocket, but i have a strong feeling it will be the cm one that stays on the dish.

[cosworth4x4]

ok im struggling to get one for £25 you interested in doing me one at a good price as all yours are on jobs .

i have no vested interest in whats the best commercial wise so it will be a fair result i post.

[digicon]

ok im struggling to get one for £25 you interested in doing me one at a good price as all yours are on jobs .

i have no vested interest in whats the best commercial wise so it will be a fair result i post.

this is where i get mine from

[cosworth4x4]

thanks best remove the link.

[nadz123]

CokeAddickt - I have ordered an origanal Channel MAster Feedhorn, as I am still short of post, pleaser mail me @ ndiqbal@o2.co.uk so I can send this to be setup.

Let me know

Regards
Nadz

[CokeAddict]

CokeAddickt - I have ordered an origanal Channel MAster Feedhorn, as I am still short of post, pleaser mail me @ ndiqbal@o2.co.uk so I can send this to be setup.

Let me know

Regards
Nadz


It is cosworth4x4 that needs to contact you, he's the guy that knows what he is doing, no point me getting involved, you will end up with a broken lnb and feedhorn.

[nadz123]

Sorry CokeAddickt - If U see him around - Let him know.
Thanks again
cosworth4x4 - If u here please contact me on ndiqbal@o2.co.uk
Regards
Nadz

[CokeAddict]

Sorry CokeAddickt - If U see him around - Let him know.
Thanks again
cosworth4x4 - If u here please contact me on ndiqbal@o2.co.uk
Regards
Nadz

Already have done, i've sent him a message to look here.

[cosworth4x4]

CokeAddickt - I have ordered an origanal Channel MAster Feedhorn, as I am still short of post, pleaser mail me @ ndiqbal@o2.co.uk so I can send this to be setup.

Let me know

Regards
Nadz

get yourself a smart titanium lnb once you have both let me know, then i will modify them for you when you send to me.

[nadz123]

I only require a single out put or are the doubles better?
Seen one on *bay = 120907441518
Is this OK?

[nadz123]

Whats the signal strength on ZEE AFLAM on 7W - Im getting a pic at the moment but breaky 34%
Are you able to get a signal lock on the Add Packahe on Horizontal angle - Like Ten Sports etc?

[cosworth4x4]

a single will do but maybe worth thinking ahead whats the chances you may add another receiver or even a twin tuner.

i can only get 31% on zee aflam at the moment but thick grey clouds and its been raining.

ive not checked the other package but if its h on one of the older sats at 7 west dont think its possible on a 1.2 were i am.

[ndiqbal]

Hi Cosworth4x4
I have the LNB and Feedhorn
please e-mail me yr addy
ndiqbal@o2.co.uk
Ta

[007.4]

@Cosworth4x4
How do you cut the front face off the lnb. Is it just a hacksaw job - or something more sophisticated?

Cheers
007.4

[cosworth4x4]

@Cosworth4x4
How do you cut the front face off the lnb. Is it just a hacksaw job - or something more sophisticated?

Cheers
007.4

first one i did i used a chop saw does a nice clean cut not a lot of work req to clean up the surface, last few i just went to the good old hack saw takes a bit more work to clean up the surface but had a orbital sander didnt take too long then.
make sure you put some tissue paper in the lnb to stop the fillings going inside.

come back with youre results.

[CokeAddict]

ok im struggling to get one for £25 you interested in doing me one at a good price as all yours are on jobs .

i have no vested interest in whats the best commercial wise so it will be a fair result i post.

Have you found a gibertini feedhorn yet, and if so how does it compare to the Channel master ?

[cosworth4x4]

no im still looking for one , altho im not too sure its going to be worth it .


ive just put up results from the icecrypt .1 quad i tested last night.

and a few pictures of the internals.

[alpa]

I bought quad invacom black LNB.
And can surely confirm that works great on my 220cm dish.

[cosworth4x4]

i decided this week to get a gibertini feedhorn to see if they are as good as recommended by digicon and have to say the results are very poor biggest waste of £28 i ever spent but i had to try.

7 west. cm gib

jsc sports hd 55% 41%
iraqui sports 58% 48%
alsalam 59% 48%

10 east

ortc 47% 26%
syria 52% 39%

both tested with modded smart tit and set up with meter and clear skies , the gibertini was at best 10% down on signals a lot worse on 10 east so bad a small shower or heavy cloud is not going to get you a signal .

so if you not going to pay up the extra for the matched cm feedhorn then you be better off using a standard smart tit or inverto.

you want the max on the weaker sats so far its still the cm feedhorn and modded tit for the channel master dish.

[007.4]

Well I finally got around to modding a single Smart White Titanium 0.1dB.
Cutting with a hacksaw and cleaning the surface with a broad file was relatively easy.
The problem is the remaining flange diameter is three millimetres too small to fully encompass the four C120 flange screw holes.

Anyway I did some comparative testing on 5E, BBC World.
In all cases I did not move the dish, I only adjusted the skew and more importantly the focal length to optimise the signal strength for each LNB.

My dish is a very old 180cm prime focus with F/D of 0.468 and unknown feed horn.

With the LNB I'm currently using (Inverto White tech 0.3dB) I got 73%.

With modded Smart White Titanium the best I could get was 69%.

Finally I tried my old black Invacom and got 76%.

Therefore, I've left that in place!

So, to conclude. The modified Smart White works fine but not quite as good as the dedicated C120 LNBs with my dish and feedhorn.

Interesting afternoon in the sun :)

[cosworth4x4]

i only use 2 made up bolt holes and they are only half holes its strong enough to hold a lnb in place.

shame you didnt try on a weaker signal , as if i remember correct the invacom did improve on some stronger signals , but not the weaker ones.

but if you got a 60% or a 90% you not going to see any difference on youre tv.

its the weak ones you cannot get or disappear in poor weather , thats you need the most from and where i live its **** weather 300 days of the year.

got any pictures of the smart tit.

[CokeAddict]

Well I finally got around to modding a single Smart White Titanium 0.1dB.
Cutting with a hacksaw and cleaning the surface with a broad file was relatively easy.
The problem is the remaining flange diameter is three millimetres too small to fully encompass the four C120 flange screw holes.

Anyway I did some comparative testing on 5E, BBC World.
In all cases I did not move the dish, I only adjusted the skew and more importantly the focal length to optimise the signal strength for each LNB.

My dish is a very old 180cm prime focus with F/D of 0.468 and unknown feed horn.

With the LNB I'm currently using (Inverto White tech 0.3dB) I got 73%.

With modded Smart White Titanium the best I could get was 69%.

Finally I tried my old black Invacom and got 76%.

Therefore, I've left that in place!

So, to conclude. The modified Smart White works fine but not quite as good as the dedicated C120 LNBs with my dish and feedhorn.

Interesting afternoon in the sun :)


Good to see someone else giving this ago :)

However the big test is to find a weaker signal with your original lnb (say something on 7w or 26e etc that is pretty low) and then repete the test again with the smart and your old black and see if there is any difference then.

[CokeAddict]

Well I finally got around to modding a single Smart White Titanium 0.1dB.
Cutting with a hacksaw and cleaning the surface with a broad file was relatively easy.
The problem is the remaining flange diameter is three millimetres too small to fully encompass the four C120 flange screw holes.

Anyway I did some comparative testing on 5E, BBC World.
In all cases I did not move the dish, I only adjusted the skew and more importantly the focal length to optimise the signal strength for each LNB.

My dish is a very old 180cm prime focus with F/D of 0.468 and unknown feed horn.

With the LNB I'm currently using (Inverto White tech 0.3dB) I got 73%.

With modded Smart White Titanium the best I could get was 69%.

Finally I tried my old black Invacom and got 76%.

Therefore, I've left that in place!

So, to conclude. The modified Smart White works fine but not quite as good as the dedicated C120 LNBs with my dish and feedhorn.

Interesting afternoon in the sun :)

Out of interest where abouts in the world are you, as i've just checked bbc world on 4.8e with my 1.2m channel master (with the hybrid smart tit with cm feedhorn) and i'm seeing 73% signal in sw uk.

[007.4]

@CokeAddict
I'm in West Yorkshire.
I'm pretty sure the feed horn is not correct for my dish.
I've not been able to find one with the correct F/D so, in general, I get the performance of a 150cm dish.
Mind you the tuner sensitivity is also a factor. With my AzBox (with which I did the testing) I get 76% (using the Invacom) but when I swop to my DM7025 I get 80%.

I'll try testing with a very weak transponder when I get some time.

[cosworth4x4]

im even further away and im getting 56% on bbc world here is the footprint.

ive got a gibertini feedhorn going cheep :respect-048:

only a joke not suitable for youre prime focus.(or much else)

hopefully digicon will buy it off me as he likes them so much.:respect-048:

[007.4]

I've just tried on a weaker transponder
ORTC 10e
With the Invacom I got 55%
with the modded smart white tit I got 54%.
Low heavy cloud.

So not much difference on my dish - but the smart white single is a lot cheaper if you are prepared and able to do the mod.

I was then trying on 7W on JSC Sports only 10% (no lock) with the modded smart white and 56% on ALSALAAM and it started to rain heavily.
Therefore, I could not compare the Invacom.

I'll try again in clear weather.

Incidently, the white plastic feedhorn cover I took of the smart white was a perfect tight push fit on my old, original feed horn.
That will stop the spiders nesting in there! :)

[ian]

007.4

the fact that your azbox gives less signal strength than what your 7025 does is totally academic mate without you also comparing the cut off signal strength.

you may find that the azbox starts to break up at 5% less signal than what you 7025 does.

eg azbox starts to break up at 35% signal and 7025 at 40% signal.

if this were the case then the results would be exactly the same with both boxes as these signal meters are only a guide and not gospel

@ cosworth

think that has to be a really old footprint mate,prior to the latest sats going up,because i have a 1.2m in manchester and so clearly outside of your posted footprint area,yet i can receive 85% signal,perfectly locked on bbc world.

Ian.

[007.4]

Hi Ian

Yes, I agree. You are totally correct.

The point I was making was that people are trying to compare signal strengths on different setups and this will vary depending upon the box used as they may well have different "base line" values ( as demonstrated by the ~5% difference between my boxes).

[digicon]

Hi Ian

Yes, I agree. You are totally correct.

The point I was making was that people are trying to compare signal strengths on different setups and this will vary depending upon the box used as they may well have different "base line" values ( as demonstrated by the ~5% difference between my boxes).


Dont forget one of the most important facts Area as well, as mentioned the signal meters on receivers should be taken with a pinch of salt i get varying degrees on my pro meter's on different setups but receivers nearly always give a higher reading or what i would call an economical reading

[cosworth4x4]

@ cosworth

think that has to be a really old footprint mate,prior to the latest sats going up,because i have a 1.2m in manchester and so clearly outside of your posted footprint area,yet i can receive 85% signal,perfectly locked on bbc world.

Ian.

it could be im not sure its the only one i could find at the time from lyngsat,im a lot further away and get it on a 1.2 ,but a lot weaker.

[cosworth4x4]

Well I finally got around to modding a single Smart White Titanium 0.1dB.
Cutting with a hacksaw and cleaning the surface with a broad file was relatively easy.
The problem is the remaining flange diameter is three millimetres too small to fully encompass the four C120 flange screw holes.

-----------------------------------------

is it defiantly mounted dead center on the feedhorn.

[007.4]

Yes, I paid particular attention to this. There is an equal space all away around the edge of the flange.

BTW did you use an O-ring between the LNB flange and the feedhorn face?

I tried with and without and it didd not seem to make much difference.

[cosworth4x4]

no i got some very good sealer we use in work , its best ive ever seen for oil water and heat so works perfect to keep out the rain as well.

its not cheep so glad i dont have to pay for it , i really would not trust normal silicon to do the job.

[007.4]

OK. I've found a nice weak satellite to test on - Eutelsat 25A (25.5 East).

This satellite is very marginal and depends upon the weather and time of day. It is quite a lot stronger at night.
The radio channels, however, appear to be very strong during the day.

Just now this is what I'm getting. Thin high cloud.



Mod Smart White Invacom
Al Sabah 10998 V 2532 3/4 41% No Lock
BRG 11145 V 2500 3/4 28% no lock No Lock
Channel 11 (Orient News) 11368 H 2100 3/4 44% 40%
Egypt 1 11635 H 2200 3/4 38% 35%

Radio channels on 11040 V 1536 3/4 84% 83%
Assirat 11152 V 2200 3/4 13% no lock No lock


I suspect this will get even better tonight. I was getting Assirat and BRG last night even with with the Invacom.

So contrary to my earlier observations the modified smart white does seem to out perform the Invacom on the very weak transponders by about 4%. Enough to get a lock on previously un-lockable channels. :)

Many thanks to cosworth4x4 for the initial idea :)

[digicon]

You should have tested with an Inverto Black pro as the Invacom and White tech have a similar 0.3db rating where as the Black pro is equal to the 0.2db Black Ultra

[007.4]

I do not have an Inverto Black Pro or Ultra to test with.

I have an Inverto White Tech. That does not perform as well as the Invacom, which in turn (according to my latest tests today) does not perform quite as well as the Modified Smart White Titanium (converted to C120). According to the box this has a 0.1dB rating and it does seem to be a bit better than the 0.3dB Invacom on the very weak transponders.

I am also now using an adjustable Invacom ADF-120 feed horn. This is not entirely suitable for my dish (F/D = 0.468) as it is for dishes with F/D 0.32 - 0.43 but with a "negative projection" (scalar rings screwed right out) it is better than the very old one I was using.

[digicon]

what sort of cable run do you have with the Invacom as i know for sure anything over 20m and they do not perform as well as the Inverto's, Also inside the Inverto's is a plastic round shield to protect from unwanted visitors reports suggest that removing this has a slight signal gain.

[007.4]

It is a long while since I installed the dish. I'm not sure what cable I used at the time. I guess bog-standard RG6 but it is a very short run of only about 5m so I do not think it will make much difference. I'm pulling in very weak sats :)

The thing I do like about the Inverto is the plastic insert. The reason I bought that LNB was I thought the Invacom was failing. Only when I removed the Invacom to replace it with the Inverto did I discover a spider's nest deep doen inside!

I've tried stretching some cling film over the front of the feed horn. That stops the bugs getting in. However, eventually you get some condensation on it and that then degrades the signal.

[cosworth4x4]

You should have tested with an Inverto Black pro as the Invacom and White tech have a similar 0.3db rating where as the Black pro is equal to the 0.2db Black Ultra

i seem to recall the gibertini feedhorn that you recommended was as good and the same as a channel master feedhorn on a channel master dish.

why do you keep contradicting peoples results and say something else is better.

plus smart tit twin £15 black pro £21 , ok bit of work to mod the tit but its not hard.

if youre track record was good id be tempted to get a black pro to test , but after the gibertini im just going to :biggrinjester:

[digicon]

i seem to recall the gibertini feedhorn that you recommended was as good and the same as a channel master feedhorn on a channel master dish.

why do you keep contradicting peoples results and say something else is better.

plus smart tit twin £15 black pro £21 , ok bit of work to mod the tit but its not hard.

if youre track record was good id be tempted to get a black pro to test , but after the gibertini im just going to :biggrinjester:

Tell you what mate why dont you try getting of the high horse routine with the 'Modding' part with Smart **** and Black Ultra's and then saying they are better than there C120 counterpart, Do you really believe that Inverto would manufacture 2 different types of LNB in one factory that does not make good business sense. The Black Pro is the Black ultra in C120 form why would anyone go to the trouble of ripping one apart to do a conversion when they both retail at the same price in my mind there is no benefit.

OH! i thought i would include this a CM1.2 with Gibby feedhorn with White Tech Twin pulling in same SNR's as an Unmodded black ultra or your Smart Tit Nuff said

[cosworth4x4]

ive no reason at all to even get on a pony let alone a high horse , ive no financial benefit to say one lnb or feedhorn better than another other than to benefit other members to get a better signal on their dish .

you have seen 3 members inc myself say the same smart tit better on week signals, its now looking like we can see who the tit is.

cm 1.2 with a gibby feedhorn and white tech twin pulling in the same as my smart tit ,LOL THAT WAS MODDED WITH CM FEEDHORN ????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????

I GUESS NOT WHO DID YOU SCAM WITH THAT ONE, HOPE HE DON'T RECOGNISE THE PICTURE.

AND ITS NOT JUST THIS SITE YOU SEEM TO DISAGREE WITH POSTS TOPICS TESTS OTHER MEMBERS POST

[digicon]

When you decide to pull your head out of your own arse because its that far up it and get your eyes tested thats a white capped gibby feedhorn unless i am mistaken and CM made white capped feedhorn's NOT!.

What i do disagree with is people suggesting that an LNBF can be better than its C120 counterpart when they are identical both in nature of production and performance which you have on this very thread, Also tests you carry out on your own equipment are impossible to replicate those results on someone else's system. which throughout this thread you have members believing they can get achieve this on there own equipment which is far from the truth.

[cosworth4x4]

I think you need to read this thread from the beginning again as you are just picking out parts you want to believe

[cosworth4x4]

sorry for the delay but its taken me a while to get my head out :302:

ill keep it simple for you , reply regarding youre photo of the cm with gibby feed horn im pretty sure i can tell them apart after you recommend one saying the same as a channel master it cost me £28 to find out its crap on a channel master ,the post was a p*ss take but you clearly didnt get it.

ok back to first post 15-12-2011 new lnb required everyone saying smart tit or inverto black ultra.
smart dont make a c120 version so to keep the cm feedhorn a modification had to be made, the smart tit proved better on the weaker signals than the iverto black ultra so what would be the point in going out and buying a black pro c120 when all i needed to do is modify that.

regarding the black ultra the same as the black pro , perhaps you should contact inverto regarding this comment on the black ultra and not the pro,

"The combination of higher spec components"

their words not mine.

the results /photos were posted to help others out , i dont recal forcing anyone to go out and buy any lnb the choice is theirs to make with the results given .

[mdt]

sorry for the delay but its taken me a while to get my head out :302:

ill keep it simple for you , reply regarding youre photo of the cm with gibby feed horn im pretty sure i can tell them apart .



why dont you wind your neck in untill you know what you are talking about? the 1.2cm in the picture posted by @digicon in this thread is owned by a well respected member on the forums and the feedhorn is a "old style" gibertini feedhorn with a longer neck than the new style which is the same as @digicons and yours im guessing... i know this because its identical to the one i have on my gibby 1.25 and it was me who sold the feedhorn(i purchased 2 from ****** sat shop) and c120 whitetech twin to the owner of the dish. i also have a andrew/cm feedhorn here and it doesnt have a white plastic cap on like the one in the picture it has a piece of transparent film over it and is bigger than the gibby one as you know seeing as you own one. i know @digicon personally and he,s a professional installer who fits all kinds/types of systems/combanations with diff stb,s,dishes ect ect in different locations and has a broad knowlage through seeing reception results day in day out. ive tried halve a dozen combo,s of lnb, lnb feedhorns on my dish and using either a dm800pro or vu+ duo/uno the best results ive had are with the old style gibby feedhorn and inverto c120 pro twin although i havent tried the single

[cosworth4x4]

im getting a bit tired now repeating myself read the post again , i know its a gibertini in the 1st photo posted ,IT WAS A **** TAKE.

and i will stand by my test results the gibirtini feedhorn is no good at all on the channel master 1.2 dish for weaker signals, you dont need any pro meter or signal meter in receiver to tell when one does not get a visible picture (the gibertini) and the channel master does.

if you do not wish to go with original channel master feedhorn then better results with black ultra or smart tit than the gibertini feedhorn and save some money.

ruff prices

gib feedhorn and black pro c120 £28/£14.99

black ultra and smart tit both £10

channel master feedhorn £40/£60(used) and £10 for smart tit

not hard to work out only about a £5 difference between the one matched for the dish and the not so good one.

i don't see the point leaving this open any longer way its going it will all get dumped in the bin , then no one will see the info.
whats the saying always one , or is it now two that spoils it.

anyone need any help/info feel free to pm me always happy to help.

[echelon]

thread reopened

lets try and keep it civil this time and remember that its not a professional claiming the nobel prize here

its simply an AMATEUR hobbyist trying to help fellow hobbyists, if you dont like or want his help then dont ask or reply trying to troll the posts !

[basilyoung]

Just read through this thread, and hats off to you Cosworth, good old, "I,ll give this idea a good bash" thank you, there is life in the hobby still

[cosworth4x4]

i finally got round to testing the icecrypt lnb modded to fit on channel master feedhorn a few weeks back and also had a mti .6 c120 form at the same time here are the results .

7 west modded ice / mti / modded smart tit

jsc sports 52% / 53 % / 55%
iraqui sports 54% / 50% / 59%
alsalam 56% / 51% / 61%
melody aflam 53% / 50% / 58%
rotana clip 50% / 46% / 56%

10 east

ortc 38% / 42% / 44%
syria 52%/ 51% / 55%


after 007.4 said he had better signal on the stronger sats with his invacom (thanks).
i decided to see what the difference was on these 3 on a strong signal and the icecrypt came out best :001_07: on 13 east , so very easy to get it wrong when you slap up a new lnb and just look at the stronger sats , i didnt waste too much time on this as a pointless task in my view.



13 east

ab motors 94% / 92% / 92%
ant 1 99% / 96% / 96%

thanks ech for reopening it for me and hopefully it will be helpful to some.

[cosworth4x4]

ive just tested the smart tit modified against the inverto c120 black pro.

7 west black pro / smart tit.


iraqui sports 48% 53%
jsc sports 33% break up / 39%
melody aflam 47% 53%
skynews 41% 48%
alsalam 49% 56%
extreme sports 43% 50%

10 east

ortc 41% 44%
palestine today 64% 64%
rasheed 81% 84%

13 east

ab motors 92% 92%
ant-1 93% 98%
axn hd 92% 97%

19 east

ab motors 92% 98%
ab1 96% 98%
bbc world 92% 98%
bvn 96% 97%

33 east

11105h 50% 54%

21 east

afaik 80% 85%

i had a bit more time today to try out a few more sats there was 2 channel that the black pro equaled the smart tit on the rest was a not even close one breaking up and un-watchable.
so its still the smart tit thats best on the channel master 1.2 and CORRECT cm/andrews/raven feedhorn .

[CokeAddict]

ive just tested the smart tit modified against the inverto c120 black pro.

7 west black pro / smart tit.


iraqui sports 48% 53%
jsc sports 33% break up / 39%
melody aflam 47% 53%
skynews 41% 48%
alsalam 49% 56%
extreme sports 43% 50%

10 east

ortc 41% 44%
palestine today 64% 64%
rasheed 81% 84%

13 east

ab motors 92% 92%
ant-1 93% 98%
axn hd 92% 97%

19 east

ab motors 92% 98%
ab1 96% 98%
bbc world 92% 98%
bvn 96% 97%

33 east

11105h 50% 54%

21 east

afaik 80% 85%

i had a bit more time today to try out a few more sats there was 2 channel that the black pro equaled the smart tit on the rest was a not even close one breaking up and un-watchable.
so its still the smart tit thats best on the channel master 1.2 and CORRECT cm/andrews/raven feedhorn .

I see the problem, your feedhorn is the wrong colour to work correctly with that lnb :D

[cosworth4x4]

dam it i knew i should have gone for the white tec ,the cable would have been happy as well as thats white too :D

[catseye]

Dish channel master 1.2 ocated in middle england -weather conditions grey/misty/foggy-normal for uk:eek:

Ive installed my modded twin tit with c/m feedhorn- Receiver Vu Duo

Big thanks to cosworth4x4:respect-051:

Results as follows


Inverto twin black ultra / Modded Tit

7 West

Alsalam
46% 46%
Melody Aflam
45% 45%


10 East

Afro
0% 60%
ORTC
43% 45%

4 East

Viasat Football
17% 72%
Viasat Film Classic
66% 70%

26 East

Ad Sports HD
0% 0%
MBC2
65% 67%
Dubai Sports 6
36% 66%

1 West

BBC News
94% 99%
M1 Magyar TV
47% 92%
TNT Bravo
36% 85%

I will check some more sats/channels when i get my hands on r/c again!

[Franky_D]

ive just tested the smart tit modified against the inverto c120 black pro.


cosworth,
I was wondering if it would be possible to compare for example:


- Invacom SNF-031 c-120 with CM feed horn vs. Invacom SNH-031.

or

- Inverto Black Pro c-120 with CM feed horn vs Inverto Black 40mm LNBF


Otherwise if someone has done it, can you please provide a link to the results. I am cnsidering changing from Inverto Black pro 40 mm LNBF on 1.2 CM dish to CM feedhorn with flange LNB, but would appreciate to understand what differene in signal can be expected before the investments start. :)


Thanks a million!

[cosworth4x4]

sorry i dont have a snh-031 to com-pair , and almost all the other lnbs ive now sold on the snf-031 worked very well with the cm feedhorn ,but if you have to buy one and need more than one cable connection they are a bit pricey.
if you want the most out of the dish id still advise go the cm feedhorn and modify a smart tit to fit, its not hard the pictures are there for you and advise just ask.
the results are above comparing the black ultra (standard) against cm feedhorn and modded smart tit.

what sat are you looking to improve and whats youre ruff location.

[TurboPirate]

Wow, excellent job modding those LNBs, Hats OFF excellent info in this thread.
Turbo

[simon 2003]

ive got a modded black ultra single on my fibo gregorian dish ,i have a twin tuner rec now so need to update was going to go with twin invacom but know im going to suffer after having the modded ultra,trouble with my dish is the feedarm can get in the way of longer type lnbs like the inverto twin ,what you recommend cos

example of fibo dish ,you can see the clearence issue with something like a inveto twin even with 90° f-connectors
http://www.fibo-owners.com/forum/images/full/p665_fibo1210.jpg

[cosworth4x4]

what you got on there now looks like a smw ,i take it youre not using or going to use the polariser not many receivers out there now that can power it, bit of a shame as you could have just angled any lnb to clear the arm as the polariser would sort that out anyway.
personally if you are going to mod a lnb id do one to fit straight to the feedhorn as that polariser will block a small amount of signal,unsure on the amount.

whats the distance to got in clearance to the arm from the bottom of lnb.

[simon 2003]

sorry mate thats not my dish just an example of a fibo to illustrate what i mean by the longer type LNBS hitting the feed arm

[cosworth4x4]

:D ok can you get to the dish easily to measure the gap , ive got 2 lnb's here icecrypt and a smart tit i can then tell you their size.

invacom should be fine as it is all length, and im sure the black ultra was the longest so if you got that on there you should be ok with a smart tit if you want to go that route.

you can also get L shape f plugs if the cable gets in the way of the arm.

[simon 2003]

ill have to have a measure at the weekend ,black ultra single is quite small mate i got a 40 mm collar modded to fit on the fibo feedhorn,i had the c120 inverto red classic single before but the modded one was far better across all sats, its the inverto twins that get a lot longer and ive seen post on fibo forums there an issue as they have to be squewed to fit even with 90° f's


see this pic a guy on the fibo forums done this one so must be ok,

http://www.fibo-owners.com/forum/en/download/file.php?id=3001&t=1

[cosworth4x4]

ok ive still got the twin modded smart tit from first pictures here , im willing to post it to you so you can see if you will get any improvement providing it will fit ,i will need it back tho as its promised to someone else.

i just looked at black ultra single picture and yeah it is very small in the area that would catch the arm.

[simon 2003]

thanks for the offer mate think ill just get the guy to make me one of these,he just this minute posted this on the forum about 30euros from holland

sorry if i h1jack3d your thread a bit mate ,some usefull comparisons

[cosworth4x4]

whats he making no link.

its what the post is her for to help others.

[simon 2003]

yea guess hes just hacksawing the end off lol and filing it off to fit inside the the fibo feed horn

just worried about the skew though ,what you reckon ?,prob be better coming down the other side of feedarm to get as close to zero as possible for diseqc

http://www.fibo-owners.com/forum/en/download/file.php?id=3000&t=1

[cosworth4x4]

if thats all he is doing do it yourself , not seen the photos but if he is putting it inside of the feedhorn there is going to be a step that could cause a problem with the signal entering the lnb.

can you post pictures or a clue on the site.

[simon 2003]

think its just an old guy who does it for a hobby mate i mean the lnbs are what getting on 20 quid ,+postage from netherlands so hes only doing it for a few euros hardly wotth getting my tools out,, 2 pics ive posted are whats hes emailed me he says hes not sure about Skew ,he did me the single aswell ,i could copy that as the collars will be similar

can you not see the 2 photos above mate ??

[cosworth4x4]

no to photos , just see a square there .

[simon 2003]

ok ive added as attachments now on previous post

[cosworth4x4]

yeah can see them now , do you have to bond that lnb in or is it still bolt upto the feedhorn.

[simon 2003]

held by small bolts

[cosworth4x4]

thats ok then hes not putting it up the inside of the feedhorn.

is the feedhorn a c120 fitting.

if so ive still got a offer for you il send the modded smart tit for you to compair against the modded black ultra when you get it.

just really need to know if its a improvement on other dishes.

ill pay the postage both ways, as long as youre prepared to carry out the test.

[simon 2003]

yea its a c120 mate no problems ill test it for you ,decent dishes fibos are, they do punch slightly above there weight so would be interesting to see if its better than the modded BU ,ill let you know when i get it be end of month now

hes offered me this Mod also mate saying its as good as a BU ultra twin Octagon Twin Slim optima OTLSO PLL LNB (attached pic) they any good ?

just to add c120 lnbs usually fit onto a flange thats inserted into the feedhorn then a couple of alan key bolts tighten up onto it to keep in place modded lnb's go straight into feedhorn and are tightened that way

[digicon]

The Octagon Optima range have a slightly better gain 60-65 compared to the Black Ultra 60

[digicon]

PLL Technology Spec from there website:


Octagon Optima Single, 1 output LNB have an impressive 0.1dB noise ratio with very high gain of between 60-65dB.

With the OCTAGON GERMANY OPTIMA LNB not only top quality, but also very latest technology (PLL) technology.The LNB is characterized by a minimal and stable noise figure of 0.1 dB and gain of 60 - 65dB, excellent workmanship and a UV-resistant outdoor housing with weather protection.

Single (1 output) 0.1dB LNB

Features & Specifications:

* PLL technology
* Excellent noise figure up to 0.1dB
* Gain 60 ~ 65dB
* Very low power consumption
* Extreme cold and heat resistant
* Very high polarization decoupling
* High frequency stability
* Feed diameter 40mm
* 3 year warranty
* Weatherproof
* DVB-S2 HD compatible
* Freq. 10.70 - 12.75 GHz
* L.O. 9.75 / 10.6 GHz

[simon 2003]

cheers mate,its phased locked loop ,i had a read up the phase is locked to same as input phase something along those lines

[digicon]

cheers mate,its phased locked loop ,i had a read up the phase is locked to same as input phase something along those lines

Its to do with a change in temperature and how the LNB reacts with the drift of signal and locks it

[cosworth4x4]

yea its a c120 mate no problems ill test it for you ,decent dishes fibos are, they do punch slightly above there weight so would be interesting to see if its better than the modded BU ,ill let you know when i get it be end of month now

hes offered me this Mod also mate saying its as good as a BU ultra twin Octagon Twin Slim optima OTLSO PLL LNB (attached pic) they any good ?

just to add c120 lnbs usually fit onto a flange thats inserted into the feedhorn then a couple of alan key bolts tighten up onto it to keep in place modded lnb's go straight into feedhorn and are tightened that way


i didnt find that the black ultra worked that well standard or modified on the channel master , if the guy is saying that the octagon works better on youre dish id go that way and try the octagon hes obviously tried them both.
dont look like hes doing a bad job either as hes making a complete new end not just doing a chop and bodge :D

this only causes one problem now , im going to end up buying one myself to try, :o10:

[cosworth4x4]

ive ordered a octagon lnb today , ill post the results as soon as i can.

couldn't resist it , :o15:

[Plessy]

ive ordered a octagon lnb today , ill post the results as soon as i can.

couldn't resist it , :o15:

Very interesting and worthwhile thread..
Cosworth4X4,, either you got a steady hand ! Or a Fancy Camera ! :respect-055:

Excellent Do***entation of your research and transcript.

P.S the banging of heads was a Great Read!
Honestly Lad's ! It was Constructive in every Manner.
Some Dissagreements about "absoulute" figures, and a shut down of the thread.?
What's New.....
Only makes the weekend more to look foward to.
.
(new installed super black, mounted MidWay with a batter'd triax 110 made a vbig improvment.)

Now If I won the lotto ?

Wrap Up well for Feburary,,,,,

:bravo-009:

[Franky_D]

sorry i dont have a snh-031 to com-pair , and almost all the other lnbs ive now sold on the snf-031 worked very well with the cm feedhorn ,but if you have to buy one and need more than one cable connection they are a bit pricey.
if you want the most out of the dish id still advise go the cm feedhorn and modify a smart tit to fit, its not hard the pictures are there for you and advise just ask.
the results are above comparing the black ultra (standard) against cm feedhorn and modded smart tit.

what sat are you looking to improve and whats youre ruff location.

I am trying to catch Eutelsat 36E in Denmark, Copenhagen. Every dB/% matters. I am waiting for my channel master feed horn to arrive soon and then will put it to test.

[Franky_D]

ive ordered a octagon lnb today , ill post the results as soon as i can.

couldn't resist it , :o15:

Octagon is not making c120, is it? I can't find it on the net with c120! Although on the Simon's picture it looks like c120 factory made.

[cosworth4x4]

Octagon is not making c120, is it? I can't find it on the net with c120! Although on the Simon's picture it looks like c120 factory made.

no they dont thats why you have to modify them youreself if you want to put them onto a c120 fitting.

same with other makes that no longer build for c120.

[simon 2003]

lol you must have a shed load of lnbs,,,only drawback to mods is weather proofing as my black ultra has started to play up now

[cosworth4x4]

ive sold most on , at a loss :ack2:

yeah you need a very good sealer luckily i got some from work its used on sumps ford and Peugeot.

ive never seen anything stick/seal as good .

[moonbase]

Could someone clear up a point re the Octagon C120 picture posted by "simon 2003"? If I have read the thread correctly this is a mod imported from the Netherlands, can anyone please PM me a link or contact details for the supplier as I am interested in testing out one of these on a 1.5m Precision Prime Focus dish to see how it compares with an Invacom C120 and an Inverto C120.


Rgds

[joshjess]

As the main UK supplier I can tell you that Octagon are not producing any C120 LNB's only offset ones.

[moonbase]

As the main UK supplier I can tell you that Octagon are not producing any C120 LNB's only offset ones.

As far as I know, the person in the Netherlands is modding the LNB's and converting them from 40mm to fit a C120 flange.

[moonbase]

As the main UK supplier I can tell you that Octagon are not producing any C120 LNB's only offset ones.

More fool them then, they are missing out on a potentially good market.

As far as I know, nobody is making mass production C120 LNB's for the general consumer/enthusiast market that use PLL technology. If Octagon got their act together and marketed some C120 LNB's based on PLL they could corner this market globally. They are already mass producing a PLL technology LNB in their 40mm offset twin output Octagon Optima LNB, how hard is it to tool up for C120?

Horse and water...


Rgds

[digicon]

More fool them then, they are missing out on a potentially good market.

As far as I know, nobody is making mass production C120 LNB's for the general consumer/enthusiast market that use PLL technology. If Octagon got their act together and marketed some C120 LNB's based on PLL they could corner this market globally. They are already mass producing a PLL technology LNB in their 40mm offset twin output Octagon Optima LNB, how hard is it to tool up for C120?

Horse and water...


Rgds


I wish they would but take into account the consumer/enthusiast market is more of a Niche market now compared to around 15-25 years ago.

[moonbase]

I wish they would but take into account the consumer/enthusiast market is more of a Niche market now compared to around 15-25 years ago.

Sure the market has moved more from prime focus 20 years ago to offset focus today, however, Invacom and Inverto and other manufacturers are churning out C120 LNB's based on inferior DRO technology. Octagon are mass producing the Octagon Optima 40mm twin output LNB with PLL technology, if they tooled up to multi output C120 with PLL then they could potentially corner a global market within months.


Rgds

[cosworth4x4]

bit of a rare day today clear skies and i seen the sun , not seen that for a while.
so i had a chance to test the octagon lnb.

7 west. moddedtit , standard oco , modded octo.

jsc 42% 42% 42%
iraqui sports 55% 54% 55%
alsalam 54% 54% 55%
melody aflam 57% 47% 47%
trt 6 50% 47% 47%
kto 54% 34% 48%

10 east

al-alam 69% 61% 66%
ortc 67% 51% 66%
beladi tv 74% 64% 65%
ifilmi 68% 61% 66%

13 east

ad sport 96% 95% 99%
daystar tv 95% 97% 96%

id say its not bad at all with only one odd big signal drop on kto , really unsure why i tried 3 scans incase it had not fully locked onto the signal but no improvement at all
even when i modified it to bolt upto the cm feedhorn the signal was still 6% down so has to be something with that freq and the lnb not being very strong.
one other point the strongest signal on the meter was with the lnb moved maximum away from the dish and there is not really a great deal of movement so if i could have moved it further back it may have improved,so may well suite other dishes better in out of the box form.

13 east the strong signal again showed a improvement, but a waste of time in my view.

if you are looking for a new lnb i would say defiantly consider this one .

[Franky_D]

Hello cosworth4x4!

When you are comparing % with different LNBs is it Signal strength or signal quality?

If you connect any LNB to a Sat Meter and point LNB in a wall, it will already show a lot of signal strength, for example
- Inverto Black Pro 0.2 gives - 84% signal,
- Invacom SNH-031 shows - 81% signal.

When installed on a dish, Inverto will accordingly provide higher % of signal strength, but it will not give as good CN rate as Invacom, which probably shows that not all signal strength is useful, there is also noise in the signal. I think it would be more correct to compare CN, won't it?

I've had a chance to compare recently on my Channel Master 1.2 dish in Copenhagen pointed at Eutelsat 36E:
1. Inverto Black 0.2 C120 + CM feedhorn
2. Inverto Black Pro 0.2 40mm
3. SNH-031
4. SNF-031 +CM feedhorn

With the following observations:
- i get highest signal strength in the following sequence (starting with strongest): 2, 1, 4, 3
- I get highest CN ratio in the following sequence (starting with strongest): 4, 3, 2, 1
56542565435654456545

[cosworth4x4]

i use the snr on the actual box , im not going to say its perfect but when my dish is so high up im working off the top 3 runs on the ladder to reach the lnb so least time i spend up there the better.
in one of the first tests i put the ber readings down as someone said use them instead of the signal strength,and to be honest they are meaningless to a lot of people including myself everyone understands a % figure .
is that a channel master feedhorn seen them with the eyebrow cover but never that shape before,face end looks a lot smaller than what ive seen before,can you measure the face.
one thing i have found what ever way you do youre testing there will always be someone say its wrong and do it another way but i guess thats life.

ive got measurements of gibertini and cm somewhere ill look for them and add later.

[cosworth4x4]

her are the measurements of the channel master , see if they are the same as youres.
also a gibertini that is a bit bigger than a channel master one , not as stated in previous posts that its smaller.:D

[Bbigfoot]

Hi cosworth4x4,

When you test do you have your LNB vertical
with the dish.

I have a Inverto Black Ultra at (0.6w) and
can up Quality Sig by 10% on all Sats by
adjusting LNB Scew (5 Degrees) to the
east, (My rite as I look at dish).

Is there a (Sticky) showing people
what to set there (Scew) to, in the
form of a graph.
(1w = 6% east) and so on.

[cosworth4x4]

i set mine up with the meter , for each sat when testing the lnbs.

dont forget the dish angles as it turns ,to set up a happy medium , select the most central stored sat and use that for best skew adjustment.

i did have a website with a calculator on ill see if i can find it.

mine is skewed same direction , but no idea on the % its skewed at.

[cosworth4x4]

if you type /en/azel_calc.html into google it will be top of the list , cant post a direct link due to the rules.

[Bbigfoot]

Hi cosworth,

I once tuned a s@y zone (45cm) one mesh dish
to Intelsat 10.02 to pick up digi sport.
picked Up Intelsat with a signal of 32%.
The LNB was still set for s@y 28e, turned
LNB to just off vertical, Signal on
Humax HD2000 Uped to 63%.

A while back had 4 LNBs on a 1m dish
Not Motorised, Prime focus at 4.8e Siruis,
It used to open (TV1000) Films, Boxing,
the lot.
Black screen under 16% Sig Quality.
Best Sig in good weather was 26%.
When it rained (Black screen).
That was on the Humax 5400ip.
Bought a Invacom LNB,
Was viewing TV100 film's at
11pm in a snowstorm in December.
The Sat used to wobble in the evening
and the Signal would drop by 40%.

BF.

[Bbigfoot]

Hi cosworth4x4,

Thank's for en/azel.

BF.

[Bbigfoot]

Hi,

just remembered TV100 was on
the Pace D2MAX receiver, not
the Humax 5400ip.

BF.

[cosworth4x4]

a fixed dish will need a different skew for different sats , if you use that calculator try 1 west then 28.2 east , you should see the difference of skew required.

[Franky_D]

her are the measurements of the channel master , see if they are the same as youres.
also a gibertini that is a bit bigger than a channel master one , not as stated in previous posts that its smaller.:D

Nice pictures! I will try to make few pics with mesuments and post tonight.
My feed horn is CM3040645 - an oldy, I think from those days when it was still CM making them. You can see similar ones on all original pictures of CM dishes.

I guess the one you've got was produced by Andrews or Raven (or whoever else owned the brand). So, there are two models. I would love to benchmark them between each other, keeping a eye on **** offerings.

5656056561

[Franky_D]

i use the snr on the actual box , im not going to say its perfect but when my dish is so high up im working off the top 3 runs on the ladder to reach the lnb so least time i spend up there the better.
in one of the first tests i put the ber readings down as someone said use them instead of the signal strength,and to be honest they are meaningless to a lot of people including myself everyone understands a % figure .
is that a channel master feedhorn seen them with the eyebrow cover but never that shape before,face end looks a lot smaller than what ive seen before,can you measure the face.
one thing i have found what ever way you do youre testing there will always be someone say its wrong and do it another way but i guess thats life.

ive got measurements of gibertini and cm somewhere ill look for them and add later.

I am pretty new with sattelite technologies and just need to get most out of my home dish setup, therefore looking into the details. I found this source very helpful in understanding what really matters: http://www.triax.fi/upload/how_to_secure_quality_of_a_sat_in stallation.pdf

I've come to understand (sorry for amateur level of conclusions):
- "signal strength" characterizes how much signal returns to the receiver from the LNB. It depends on cable length, build in amplifier of the LNB. If I connect LNB to a SatMeter and point into a wall I get 81% signal and (of course 0% quality), if installed on a dish then the signal strength will be somewhat higher (from 84 to 89% with different transponders). In my opinion if you want to use signal strength as any indicator, than only the part added to the signal when on the dish should be considered (i.e. 89-81%=8%, consider that part of this is still noise)
- "signal strength" is comprised of useful signal and noise, therefore overall signal strength is not an indicator
- BER is mostly important when setting the skew.
- Carrier to Noise ratio (CN) is more important to understand is the signal which you get is a good quality signal or mostly noise. In the Triax paper it suggests that it is mostly dependant on the size of the dish. In my experience it also depends on: a) using proper feedhorn (collecting signal from the dish to it's optimum); b) using correct skew; c) using quality LNB (that's where I guess cross polar isolation and local oscilator phase hoise are contributing) c) in case of 40mm LNBf - moving it closer or further away from the dish.
- the length of the cable is affecting the "signal strength", but not the CN. I get the same CN both on the dish and at home (50 meters of cable)
- in bad whether "signal strength" does not go down (no wonder - tuner-cable-LNB connection characteristis have not changed), it is CN which goes down. If it goes down to 7dB the picture starts freezing/crashing.

Look here what is CN and what it is affected by: http://books.google.dk/books?id=MM0d2cMUWbEC&lpg=PA285&ots=T3YcEhZd53&dq=measure%20EIRP%20with%20satell ite%20meter&pg=PA313#v=onepage&q=measure%20EIRP%20with%20satelli te%20meter&f=false

[cosworth4x4]

SatMeter and point into a wall I get 81% signal , but connect the lnb to a sat receiver and point to the wall you get 0%.
i assume the meter uses a different kind of meaurement , what happens if you point to a week sat ? or is the 81% youre getting just a reference reading?
regarding the channel master feed horn , i guess youres is a very old cm one, the one in the picture above on my dish is a channel master as it was bought before they got taken over , i always though this type that i am now using was a andrews/raven replacement .

if you find a big difference in size of the feedhorn ive got a spare i can send to you to try , but i will need it back.

[Franky_D]

You are right about difference between SatMeter and SatReceiver. I guess SatMeter readings are more honest, specially when it comes to signal quality. I remember Receiver showing quality higher than signal.. what can that mean!? :-/

I am attaching pictures with the same LNB a) connected on the kitchen table to a SatMeter and b) connected to SatMeter while on the dish. As you see signal strength is the same. With other transponders strength was 84% or 89%..

5657556576


The difference in size between the two feed horns is actually quite significant. Also there are no rings on mine. I would love to put the two to test! Will PM you shortly :)

565775657856579565805658156582

[Franky_D]

ive just tested the smart tit modified against the inverto c120 black pro.

7 west black pro / smart tit.


i had a bit more time today to try out a few more sats there was 2 channel that the black pro equaled the smart tit on the rest was a not even close one breaking up and un-watchable.
so its still the smart tit thats best on the channel master 1.2 and CORRECT cm/andrews/raven feedhorn .

This Inverto Black C120 is soo tiny in real life! I was a bit disappointed with it's performance. It was worse than 40mm LNBf inverto black pro 0.2

[Franky_D]

Is moded tit 0.1 still the best in your tests?

[cosworth4x4]

yeah seems a big difference in the feedhorns, yeah ive kept the smart tit on as it in my view was the best.

[Franky_D]

I had a chance to test Smart Tit and Octagon, both moded to C120 by cosworth4x4 and have to admit, that they are both surprisingly strong performers for weak signals! Considering their price, they are definitely great LNBs!

See results of the tests here: https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?161957-Benchmarking-various-LNBs-on-Channel-Master-1-2-with-without-feed-horn

[sasho]

I got Inverto white tech c120 single and twin - twin Is better at 11.7 - 12.7 band for sure
has anyone tested Inverto white tech against other Inverto c120 lnbs

[Rizwan]

I am using Invert Black ultra on my prime focus Dish of size 3.5 meter, If I use Invert Black with flange with feed horn , is that chance of improving signals ?

[cosworth4x4]

its a case of try to see , if there is a dedicated feedhorn matched to youre dish it could work better that the one that comes with the black ultra you have.

[>COR<]

I pickd the white titanium 0.1 dB for my triax 1.1 meter dish because of the results here and the long neck that allowed me to place it exactly in the focus point of the dish in the holder, enough necklength to slide it in the place that gave the highest signal on my meter.
It replaced the old 0.3 dB Invacom LNBF with marginal improvement, but that one needed replacing anyway.
New actuator was needed also so a super jack heavy duty 24"and new VU+ solo were replacing the old echostar actuator and Echostar AD 3000 IP Viacess reciever and the VBox 3000 is now driving the new actuator and it's quite fast too.
Now getting my head around the CCcam stuff........ getting old doesn't help either ;)

[Rizwan]

its a case of try to see , if there is a dedicated feedhorn matched to youre dish it could work better that the one that comes with the black ultra you have.

There is no feed horn come with my LNBF, I just install it with a local made feed horn, So I am not satisfied its result

[cosworth4x4]

There is no feed horn come with my LNBF, I just install it with a local made feed horn, So I am not satisfied its result

lnbf = lnb and feedhorn incorporated.

lnb with separate feedhorn you say had made ? so a c120 type lnb ?

little more info on what you have cheers.

[Rizwan]

lnbf = lnb and feedhorn incorporated.

lnb with separate feedhorn you say had made ? so a c120 type lnb ?

little more info on what you have cheers.

I try to upload picture of my LNBF and type of feed horn I am using to get help from you all experts

[cosworth4x4]

you may not be able to upload until you have made a few more posts,but im not sure the amount of posts you need.

[Rizwan]

It mean still wait for the Answer for my Question, How Much posts ?

[echelon]

It mean still wait for the Answer for my Question, How Much posts ?

one is the answer - one post, or more than one

[cosworth4x4]

cheers ech.

rizwan looks like you are doing something wrong if you cannot upload the pictures , i was assuming you had to have so many posts before you are allowed to upload similar to pm's.

[Rizwan]

Please check this and then expert's advice

58355

[cosworth4x4]

you say the feedhorn was made , is it just the photo or is it not located very square.

do you know the make of the dish,if not sure add a photo im sure someone will recognize it .

[Rizwan]

This is fitted with LNBF, what photo more I add Now ? only its feed Horn ? Also add this, Its not a branded Dish, locally made 12 Feet Dish prime focus

[cosworth4x4]

locally made dish and feedhorn ? that dont give me a lot of confidence what spec are they working to ? or is it just something thrown together and hope for the best .

[jase1]

Has anyone got a photo of a standard CM feedhorn with the lnb? The one I've found is grey if this helps.

I've picked up a dish and supermount but it didn't come with an lnb.

[Rizwan]

locally made dish and feedhorn ? that dont give me a lot of confidence what spec are they working to ? or is it just something thrown together and hope for the best .

It never come together, I just trying to find which works fine

[cosworth4x4]

Has anyone got a photo of a standard CM feedhorn with the lnb? The one I've found is grey if this helps.

I've picked up a dish and supermount but it didn't come with an lnb.

the one in the first post is a channel master one , it is light grey although it looks white in the photo and has a black cap , later ones andrews had no black cap.

[jase1]

the one in the first post is a channel master one , it is light grey although it looks white in the photo and has a black cap , later ones andrews had no black cap.

That's cleared things up now. I'd seen a used one for sale online that looked like it had an lnb attached.

It was used and it turned out to be just the feedhorn. I think it was too much money for a feedhorn on its own.

Back to the drg board it is then :beatdeadhorse5:

[cosworth4x4]

new they are about £70 , used on the bay average about £40 but you can be lucky and get a bargain now and then.

[jase1]

new they are about £70 , used on the bay average about £40 but you can be lucky and get a bargain now and then.

I've seen the new ones but that'll be more than I paid for the dish, supermount, actuator, pole and stand off!!!!

I think I'll get a black ultra, set it up and see how I go. Then just keep looking for one @ the right price :)

[Rizwan]

58391

Here the picture for my Dish, at the moment only one LNB, Black Invert.
It is 3.5 M with 53 cm deep Antenna. what kind and shape of Feed horn advised ?

[cosworth4x4]

that is a monster of a dish , cant say ive seen one like that before , best you make a new topic asking if anyone can identify it then you stand a better chance of getting the correct feedhorn.

[Rizwan]

Where should i start a new thread for help ? In Dish section Or in LNB section ?

[cosworth4x4]

i would start in the dish section try to find out what you got first , it does look like a uplink sat dish with the large hole in the center.

[kieron56]

hi live in Manchester got a new horizon 1.2 offset dish using a black ultra lmb trying to get a 7 west get some channels on 7.west but get no signal on any sports channels get 12.5 west is there anything I can try to try and bring the signal in like moveing lmb in or out was reading about the feed horn just don't know lost thanks

[kieron56]

hi got a new horizon 1.2 offset dish with a black ultra get some signals on 7 west working they about 30 percent but no other channels is there anything I can do to bring it up would sliding the lmb forward or back help whats a feed horn could that help or better lmb just don't know thanks

[Captain Jack]

Interesting read about the Smart LNB - it's the one that I've read as having a very good performance but never tried it personally. I've tested a few combinations of LNBs/feedhorns/dishes and here's what I've found.

Channel Master 1.2m dish

For this, I find that a well adjusted Black Ultra 40mm LNB works best for me. I have also tried a Black Pro C120 with the original CM feedhorn (transparent cap), a single BU converted to fit C120 and a twin BU converted to C120. None of the conversions deliver a better result than the unmodified BU. Signals were at least 0.5dB better there. So, for now the CM feedhorn is lying in the garage unused...

The conversion was a good one as it allowed me to adjust the skew of the LNB on the C120 flange (pic below).

Fibo 1.2m dish

The other dish I played with was the Fibo 1.2m Gregorian. I originally had it fitted with the Black Pro C120 to the original Fibo feedhorn and it was OK and better than the Channel Master with the BU but the BU on Fibo absolutely trounced the Black Pro. Signals were at least 1dB up across the range of frequencies and many weak channels that never locked became lockable.

59924

[Phoenixx]

604626046360464604656046160458604 596046060457Hi Folks ;)

After a little time and testing a few lnb`s i have modify also offset lnb to primefocus spesialy for the weak signals from my Primefocusdish Jonsa 180 on my balcony. ;)

First i test the ivacom twin and the inverto twin lnb, Signals are there but not so strong as i espect and the story that Jonsa is not good for ku
and i resamble the panels to get it al mechanical optimized with some technice, thanks to David Roman for advice.;) .


I have tested a few lnb`s Inverto black twin, Megasat 70 db and now finaly the Mti Highgain Lnb to rebuild him for my Primefocus lnb specialy for
the fringe weak signals to recieve and compensate some tuner isseu`s from my dreambox and drhd for dx.

Now the signals for Ku are Booming In ;) And i have pretty good results on ku but i heard that the rendement for prime is not so high as for offset dish specialy the channelmaster and the channelmaster feedhorn are the best, better then the giby or other feedhorns.

The first test was to 60 e Nika tv and Scopus tv 100, they are weak signals here because my balcony block some signal and there is nothing i can do about it, but the signals are there and i have a nice time to tweak someting and optimise the level and the ber. Then i testin also Badr and Nile sat and in good weather nilesat 201 is arriving on my maxplus 2100 old test reciever with sharp tuner on 11919 ;). Normally i get all the niles also in rainy weather here in Holland (Beverwijk) and most of the clarcbeld is booming in here in Holland.

I read about the feedhorn that the best performance is to get space (4mm) from the end of the feedhorn to get the best compromis to signal and ber. what i also hear is that the adf 120 more optimized is for the high band ( 11.7 - 12.750 Gz) and searching for another feedhorn and found the seavea feedhirn who has mor rings and also use for bigger dish but the price is more then 2 jonsa`s dish loo and is to high for me i wanna make my own feedhorn for it..

There is also a way to get primefocus to screw a feedhorn on a offsetlnb, its the easyest way to test him now for you primefocus dish..

I have read the whole treath and my advise for mod lnb is to test the Megasat Single (70 Db) and the Mtu ap82xt2n Lnb, it must be working and maybe a little tweak is nessesary and a expancive lnb but you get what you want for the price.;)

A good dx ing Sat and greetings from Holland..

[ymt]

I'm in Ghana west africa. I hv a 5.2 meter locally made prime focus dish with which I track hotbird, astra 19.2 east, badr 4, nilesat and sky uk. I hv used smart tit, black ultra quad, Mti ak54-xt2n, mti ap82-xt2n all moded. The black pro both quad and twin and invacom qdf with invacom feedhorn. The best fringe lnb so far is the mti ap82-xt2n.

[esuo2]

I'm in Ghana west africa. I hv a 5.2 meter locally made prime focus dish with which I track hotbird, astra 19.2 east, badr 4, nilesat and sky uk. I hv used smart tit, black ultra quad, Mti ak54-xt2n, mti ap82-xt2n all moded. The black pro both quad and twin and invacom qdf with invacom feedhorn. The best fringe lnb so far is the mti ap82-xt2n.
Please Pm me ur contact details for important info

[ymt]

People there is no any lnb as good as the mti ap82-xt2n. It's so powerful. I recently tested against both the black ultra single and twin and the mti was far ahead. Both the black ultra single and twin are very good but the mti is in a world of its own. The only setback is That It's expensive but it will do the job for you.

[staddos]

People there is no any lnb as good as the mti ap82-xt2n. It's so powerful. I recently tested against both the black ultra single and twin and the mti was far ahead. Both the black ultra single and twin are very good but the mti is in a world of its own. The only setback is That It's expensive but it will do the job for you.

You give the MTI thumbs up over the inverto black ultra. Did you modify the mti ap82-xt2n in any way or you use it the way it is. If you do modify the mti in anyway can you post a picture of your modified mti ap82-xt2n and how you have mounted it on your dish. I use same lnb in Ghana but dont get the results you get.

[satscene]

i have the Black Ultra on a 1.1 Televes (Offset) at the moment, very interested in this MTI AP82-XT2N. Would it be an improvement, or do you think these are more suited to the prime focus type of dish?

i see them in the 40mm collar.

[ymt]

I use the mti on a 5.2 meter prime focus dish. The head of the lnb is cut off. The lnb originally is for offset dishes so to use it on a prime focus dish, modify it. Staddos is your dish offset or prime focus. Have you tried the black ultra? You say the mti is the lnb sitting on your dish now meaning that is the best you have. If another lnb has beaten it let us know.

[holmroad]

Ah - so maybe its only at its best with a mammoth sized dish then mate?

[ymt]

I don't think so because persons who have used the mti on small dishes have hailed it as well. We in West Africa are too far away from the middle east and european signals so we need huge dishes to receive same.

[staddos]

I use the mti on a 5.2 meter prime focus dish. The head of the lnb is cut off. The lnb originally is for offset dishes so to use it on a prime focus dish, modify it. Staddos is your dish offset or prime focus. Have you tried the black ultra? You say the mti is the lnb sitting on your dish now meaning that is the best you have. If another lnb has beaten it let us know.

ymt my dish is a prime focus dish as it is very difficult to get big offset dish in west Africa. I have black ultra and the mti but my problem is how you modified yours that is why I would have loved to see pictures of your modified mti. I did modiffy the mti quad by cutting off the head and used super glue to attach a scalar ring of a fuji star gold lnb to it. I want to know if thats what you did or you just cut the head off and attach no scalar rings/feedhorn to it? I have mti ap82-xt2n that I want to modify but I wait for your answer or picture before I do that.

[ymt]

Yh I did same before but now I cut the head of the mti and don't attach the fuji head to it becos that has given me more signal. But whether or not to use the fuji head after cutting the mti will depend on which option works better for you. I tried attaching pix but it's not working. What is your dish type and which European and middle east satellites do you pick.

[sasho]

ymt
there Is another 70 dB gain lnb on the market - BEST HG series - It Is much cheaper than MTI
did you try It against your favorite MTI
can you post some pics from your moded MTI

[chopper1]

guys im thinking of changing my Inverto black twin LNB

I need a triple LNB but after searching maybe only Quad LNB's are available, do i just seal off the 4th LNB sonnection?

was looking advice whether i should stick to the Inverto black or try a smart titanium, thomson, Philex, Icecrypt or Maclean for best results ?

set up 1.1 metre diseq motorised

[satscene]

J, hard to beat the Inverto Black Ultra High Gain lnb, i have a fella set up with the twin of this version not far from you on a 1.1 and all the popular sats are coming in no problem. Nearly sure there`s a quad output as well.

[amdaley]

The Inverto Black Ultra is very popular.
I use a twin output myself & have found it to be excellent.
If you just want 3 outputs then get a quad & simply blank off one of the connections.

[chopper1]

thanks Roy & Amdaley yes the Quad are available

seems like the Quattro is not as reliable

[Mobley2]

Quatro Lnb is a completely different beast. A Quad Lnb, delivers 4 similar outputs on all connections,
a Quatro Lnb provides for High and Low band switching, plus H & V polarities. They are not interchangeable.
As previous advise, just cap off the spare output.

regards mobley 2

[KABIELA]

and which is now the best of these two different LNB with feedhorn
Invacom Feedhorn with quad?
Inverto or Invacom C120 LNB?

[cosworth4x4]

there are too many posts now added that are not relevant , i will edit this topic tomorrow.

[KABIELA]

for me this is important
I just bought a dish of 1.80m
and would surely like to know which LNB is best

[cosworth4x4]

The best option , start a new topic state dish make / model .

This one i started years ago 2011 based on a channel master 1.2.

[ManikM]

Well....what an amazing thread, i have just had the pleasure of reading through.....took me a couple of hours too.

Well done, and thank you to everyone involved, especially @Cosworth4x4 - not easy doing all that testing up a ladder in the cold and wind.

@cosworth4x4 - i wouldnt mind that Gibertini feedhorn if you still have it btw. :)

[cosworth4x4]

@cosworth4x4 - i wouldnt mind that Gibertini feedhorn if you still have it btw. :)

The Photos are still here at the start , sorry but the Gibertini feedhorn was sold on at a loss :D

[ManikM]

The Photos are still here at the start , sorry but the Gibertini feedhorn was sold on at a loss :D

yep cheers mate, i will be modding very soon!!!

[gbmitie]

Is this any good GT-Sat GT-SLRC1 Universal Single Compact Straight Feed LNB 0.1db? spec looks like a black ultra but its only £2.95, its a long time since I bought an lnb.

[cosworth4x4]

At £3 id say its run of the mill lnb prob sky eqivilent, you get what you pay for myself i would not give it light of day.

[ymt]

I have stayed with my favourite mti highline twin (mti ap82-xt2n) over the years in spite of the fact that it is expensive. i have seen test made and other lnbs like the black ultras reported to be better. I will not blame those who conducted those test because their problem is they failed to uncover the secrete of the mti, which i am sharing now through experience. When testing the mti, it may give one for instance 55% and another lnb may give 58% on same setup and transponder. Then the one conducting the test concludes that the lnb that gave 58% is better and we can blame him. The secret with the mti is when one goes to check the difficult transponders, they will be fine on the mti but the other lnb that gave 58% and claimed to a better as a result of that higher percentage reading will struggle with the weaker transponders. This is the secret associated with the mti highline, which my favourite is the twin. However it is important to add that i dont trust the new mti highline lnbs with the yellow stickers.

[ManikM]

interesting - very active on a few forums re this

[cosworth4x4]

I have stayed with my favourite mti highline twin (mti ap82-xt2n) over the years in spite of the fact that it is expensive. i have seen test made and other lnbs like the black ultras reported to be better. I will not blame those who conducted those test because their problem is they failed to uncover the secrete of the mti, which i am sharing now through experience. When testing the mti, it may give one for instance 55% and another lnb may give 58% on same setup and transponder. Then the one conducting the test concludes that the lnb that gave 58% is better and we can blame him. The secret with the mti is when one goes to check the difficult transponders, they will be fine on the mti but the other lnb that gave 58% and claimed to a better as a result of that higher percentage reading will struggle with the weaker transponders. This is the secret associated with the mti highline, which my favourite is the twin. However it is important to add that i dont trust the new mti highline lnbs with the yellow stickers.

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?153388-lnb-tests-smart-tit-black-ultra-invacom-twin-c120-invacom-quad-c120&p=850169&viewfull=1#post850169

As good as what i said 9 years ago , no point improving a good signal the ones week ones you need to improve.

[ManikM]

nearly a ten year old thread - and still all valid.

im actually going to try cutting some old LNBFs (smart tit, and a tm gold) and testing with my CM feedhorn (on Laminas Dish) - to see if it beats my Inverto PLL - of which i also have a spare

[ymt]

ManikM, is your Inverto PLL beating the favoured inverto black ultra in your test?

[ManikM]

ManikM, is your Inverto PLL beating the favoured inverto black ultra in your test?

yes, a few LNBs beat the IBU in my opinion, the Inverto PLL and the Technomate Gold (using their own integrated feedhorns)

[ManikM]

LOL well i managed to butcher 2 LNBs today....and laid them to rest.

@Cosworth4x4 - how did you cut the end of so cleanly? do you have a fancy machine?

a hacksaw was not fit for the job for me. :)

[ymt]

My favourite mti highline twin with 72db is off the markets, at leaat the online market. Does anyone know where its still available. Also any recent test that has come up with a champion fringe reception lnb? Please share.

[butchyboy]

yes, a few LNBs beat the IBU in my opinion, the Inverto PLL and the Technomate Gold (using their own integrated feedhorns)

maniKM is this the inverto pll you have ?.

https://www.satworld.ie/inverto-black-premium-single-pll-lnb.html

[3tv]

yes, a few LNBs beat the IBU in my opinion, the Inverto PLL and the Technomate Gold (using their own integrated feedhorns)

goldmedia also worth checking out. theres another post on here discussing that.

[satpaul]

Anyone tested this one yet see pic69664

[ManikM]

maniKM is this the inverto pll you have ?.

https://www.satworld.ie/inverto-black-premium-single-pll-lnb.html

yep