Problem setting up dish and motor

[dog-man]

I am having terrible problems setting up my dish and new motor.

I have done this a number of times before so I am no virgin to this, but the last time was several years ago.

I have a 1.1m triax dish.
My motor is a supreme intelligent dark motor.

I have set the elevation of the motor to 39 as per the manual and the declination of the dish to 27.4 as per the manual.

Unless I change those figures quite a bit I will not even get a sniff of a signal from any satellite, but the signal strengths will be way lower than they should be.

The only thing I am doing differently this time is I am using usals for the first time as I thought it would make things easier.
It hasn't!

Adjusting the elevation and declination with a dish as heavy as a Triax 1.1m is no fun when you are up a ladder. I have been at it for 3 days now and unless I settle for lower signal strengths, I am no nearer sorting this out.

I need advice please. I refuse to pay for it to be installed as I have done this with great success before.

I am using a signal meter.

Just to confirm that my pole is level (using a post level).
I have input my longitude and latitude.

A very fed up dog-man.....

[echelon]

my motor has latitude on it , so dont use elevation (the book diagram shows elevation but you use latitude instead)

had I not read all your post and you were a newbie, I would have told you to use the latitude on the motor (51 in your case) and about 27.5 on your triax dish, then alter the motor on the pole swinging it left or right, and small adjustments on your triax dish, to fine tune it

the latitude is never altered

[dog-man]

Hmmm, I did consider using my latitude as it does indeed say latitude on the motor but I just thought it was a translation error as they are made abroad.

I have just come down the ladder after finding I am getting a fairly strong signal in one spot only around the 49 mark on the motor, so I will now try 51 and see what happens.

Really getting fed up with this now. My legs are killing me. :)



dog-man

[donki]

Plugged it in? :)

Not sure that this will help but, like a fool, I climbed my ladder to read my angles which are:

Motor 39
Dish Declination 21

But these would only be relevant to you if you lived close to where I am in Northants.

Originally had my dish bracket upside down when I first set mine up. Drove me crazy for half a day before I realised it. Eeeyore.

Setup on 0.8 and then try the ARC and adjust the declination as required until happy.

[echelon]

the error is in the book , my superior booklet is the same , says elevation in the booklet but you actually use latitude on your motor, so 51 in your case, 27.4 on your triax and then use your box to send it to 0.8w using usals, and select bbc world news , then look for that channel until you get a booming signal lock, lock up the dish and pole mounting brackets and test to 42e and 30w etc

post #6 here https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?58680-install-FAQ-thread has the transponders for checking the arc

I checked mine last week and the darkmotor superior is definitely on my actual latitude, not elevation, I believe your supreme will be the same , so not as in the last post (I altered by booklet accordingly)

[dog-man]

Plugged it in? :)

Not sure that this will help but, like a fool, I climbed my ladder to read my angles which are:

Motor 39
Dish Declination 21

But these would only be relevant to you if you lived close to where I am in Northants.

Originally had my dish bracket upside down when I first set mine up. Drove me crazy for half a day before I realised it. Eeeyore.

Setup on 0.8 and then try the ARC and adjust the declination as required until happy.


I am extreme SE UK, not too far from Margate.

so for me it is 51.

[ManikM]

I am having terrible problems setting up my dish and new motor.

I have done this a number of times before so I am no virgin to this, but the last time was several years ago.

I have a 1.1m triax dish.
My motor is a supreme intelligent dark motor.

I have set the elevation of the motor to 39 as per the manual and the declination of the dish to 27.4 as per the manual.

Unless I change those figures quite a bit I will not even get a sniff of a signal from any satellite, but the signal strengths will be way lower than they should be.

The only thing I am doing differently this time is I am using usals for the first time as I thought it would make things easier.
It hasn't!

Adjusting the elevation and declination with a dish as heavy as a Triax 1.1m is no fun when you are up a ladder. I have been at it for 3 days now and unless I settle for lower signal strengths, I am no nearer sorting this out.

I need advice please. I refuse to pay for it to be installed as I have done this with great success before.

I am using a signal meter.

Just to confirm that my pole is level (using a post level).
I have input my longitude and latitude.

A very fed up dog-man.....

i feel your pain mate, went through all this recently.

im too chicken to climb on my roof, so got a man in.

glad i did, good luck !

[dog-man]

I might be getting somewhere, but it is bothering me at the moment that I am only getting signal strength of about 60% or lower on 19.2.

Something is very wrong, but I can't figure out what.

Have to stop and go to work now sadly.

I will scan in some more satellites tomorrow and try and figure how my dish arc compares to the arc in the sky.

I will have thighs like a weight lifter after all this, what with all the ladder climbing.

[echelon]

the main things to remember are

lock the motor mount latitude to 51 with the little pointer next to the locking bolt

start with the dish around 27 to 28 degrees elevation on the side with the pointer (the v shaped groove - back left on mine)

make sure you have the correct usals details in the receiver and send the motor to thor at 0.8 west, bbc world or sly news fta channels are good to start with

make sure the lnb cable f connector socket points straight down when on 0.8w and maybe start with the quad lnb about midpoint on its neck

have the system setup outside if you can where you can see a portable tv from up the working dish area and leave it on bbc world news or sly news

I find my spiderbox is excellent due to the fact it has signal and quality bars onscreen when you press info twice, I didnt like the satfinder on the dm or vu

but one good point with the vu is you can stream to a phone using vuplayer , which is handy when up a ladder

[dog-man]

My marker groove for the dish declination is also on the left if I am stood in front of the dish looking at it.
Probably the only thing I have not tried is moving the lnb backward or forward. I will try that tomorrow afternooon.
I am using the correct lat / long settings in usals.
Good idea about streaming to a phone. I shall try that.

[echelon]

My marker groove for the dish declination is also on the left if I am stood in front of the dish looking at it.
Probably the only thing I have not tried is moving the lnb backward or forward. I will try that tomorrow afternooon.
I am using the correct lat / long settings in usals.
Good idea about streaming to a phone. I shall try that.

mine is on the RIGHT if looking from the front of the dish face (the lnb side), on the LEFT if looking from the back where the mount is

there are markings on both sides of the dish mount, so maybe you need to use the left side looking from the rear ?

make sure the dish mounting holder is the correct way round

as in check picture 3 on the triax pdf - 896496b.pdf (or your leaflet) and look at the picture for 10 to 34 degrees (and not 23 to 48 like you have it), showing the pointer on the left at the rear of your dish which is how mine is (and is spot on)

[dog-man]

Can't check now as I am at work, but I am fairly sure there is only a mark on one side of my dish bracket that grips the dish.

[echelon]

Can't check now as I am at work, but I am fairly sure there is only a mark on one side of my dish bracket that grips the dish.

same here, and mine is on the left and yours is on the right, so you have that bracket upside down

check the new pdf I uploaded tonight for clarity as its not obvious on your leaflet

[dog-man]

As for the dish bracket possibly being the wrong way round, it has been this way since first installing it probably over ten years ago. I have always had good strong signals.

How do I know which is the correct way round?
It would be amusing if it has been the wrong way round for that long.

[echelon]

have a look at this pdf here https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?58680-install-FAQ-thread&p=885213#post885213 as its not obvious on the td110 leaflet

I suppose 27.4 can be used either way, but as you are having problems I am comparing your install to mine and I know mine works and I am a lot further north than you so you should get better signals than me seeing as we have almost the same equipment

[dog-man]

If I turned the bracket round the declination scale numbers would be upside down.
Surely that cannot be right.

[echelon]

I can only explain how mine is set up and its the same equipment as you (almost), mine is working as it should , yours isnt, ergo you have something wrong, so I believe its the dish mounting bracket clamp upside down as my pointer is on the left as per all the diagrams on the left side of page 3 of the pdf

the dish mounting point has numbers for elevation on both sides, the pdf mainly shows the pointer on the left looking from the rear and that is where mine is, on roughly 27.5 degrees on the left side rear markings (ignore those on the right side)

the bracket clamp can be mounted either way up, as the pdf shows on page 3 lower left under each of the two elevation pictures

[dog-man]

Yes, you are correct.
The scale is written on the dish not the bracket, so I was wrong. It will not be upside down.
So for at least ten years my bracket has been the wrong way round.
How the hell did I get such good signals with my old Jaeger motor.

[TheBadger]

I have a Jaeger and a 1m Lenson dish. I check the angle the face of the dish makes with the vertical using a long straight edge and a digital spirit level. I have posted diagrams and figures on the site somewhere but I can't find them so here they are again.

[dog-man]

I have just had a look at the dish declination scales on both sides of the dish and they are completely different.
27.4 degrees on the right is not 27.4 on the left side scale looking at it from the rear of the dish.

So that is obviously my problem so I will correct that.

Strange though that for around 10 years I have been getting very strong signals.

Perhaps with the dish mount stub going up as it was on the jaeger I could manually compensate, but with the stub going down as it is with the dark motor, I cannot compensate.

I would have thought though that if I found the right declination manually with this motor, everything should have been ok.


Doesn't look like I will finish the job for a few days at least as I have work tonight and heavy rain is forecast over the weekend.

[echelon]

that is my take on it, but until you have done it to match mine and checked the signals we wont be sure

the original paperwork isnt as explicit as that pdf I uploaded, but I seem to remember having similar problems when I changed from an upwards pointed stab hh120 to a downwards pointed motek, so when I changed to the darkmotor last year from the motek I know my pointer was on the left side, but cannot remember what it was in my stab motor days

its also why I thought you wanted a photocopy of the original paperwork, so I found mine and was going to photocopy it and upload it until I found that pdf

as an engineer, I was trained to look at something that works, and when something is faulty you compare it to the one that works and suss out the differences or changes that have happened, to pinpoint a fault

in this case, the equipment is so similar that it makes no difference, so I latched onto you mentioning where your pointer was and realised it was on the opposite side to mine, then checked that pdf with the better diagrams, and your lack of success means that I believe I have found the problem

but as 27.5 exists in both of the diagrams details, its difficult to actually discount one over the other, but I know mine works so I decided that my way was the right way (as a hobbyist and ex engineer). I hope I am now proved right

shame about the weather though

[dog-man]

I have also looked at my Triax dish instructions that came with the dish.
It is not exactly the same as the pdf you uploaded and the v groove on the bracket is shown as being on the right side looking at the dish from the rear.
there is no mention of the bracket being able to go either way depending on the declination you need.

So I must have followed those instructions to the letter around 10 years ago.

Why can't instructions be clear and concise?

I now have to wait until my son comes home from work as I need his help to mount the dish back on the stub.
Too dangerous to do it alone. My balance is not good after a major operation many years ago.

[dog-man]

The TD88 and the TD110 have different brackets, I have just replaced td88 with td110
The td100 has inserts to reinforce and stop bracket collapsing.

I have no insert on mine.

I am sure I would have fitted it if there was one, but I can see it mentioned in the instructions.
I am fairly sure I have the original bag that contained the parts somewhere in the garage, so I will have a look in case I did miss it, but its been up for around 10 years and no sign of any rust or damage or collapsing brackets.

[echelon]

on the original 01-2001 (date) paperwork the inserts are shown in part 2 and show them going inside the actual dish mounting plate in the pictures 2.1 , 2.2 and 2.3

pictures 3 , 4 , 5 and 6 all show the notch on the right, and an upwards mounting motor spigot like my stab h2h 120 was

on that video above it shows his notch on the right too, using the right hand side elevation markings and he mentions about using the clamp bracket upside down, he is also using an upwards pointed motor like the old one dogman used , but I can assure you all that mine is on the left hand side and is all I can think of causing this problem, as borne out in the pdf (but the pdf doesnt mention the td110 I admit)

but mine works fine on my darkmotor and previously on my motek, so I believe in the posts I made, but it is a 2 man job to swap it round so I hope I am right about this

[dog-man]

On my instructions in image 5 it does show the insert for the bracket.

I have already switched the bracket to the other way up but getting the dish off the stub was much easier than trying to get it back on and tighten the nuts at the same time.
Hopefully my son won't be late home which he frequently is. :(

[echelon]

I can see we may all be at cross purposes as regards inserts

there are 2 types of inserts on my instructions

1 is to the left of image 2 and goes inside the dish mount before its bolted to the back of the dish, to stop the dish mount collapsing, its unlikely you will see these once the mount is bolted to the back of the dish

the one in picture 5 is to stop the clamp from collapsing and goes with the large u-bolts that clamp the bracket to the motor spigot

[dog-man]

I managed to get the dish on the stub by myself as my son is going to be late home.

I had to increase the declination from 27.4 as it should be to around 31 to get a strong signal on 0.8w.

Now scanning a few satellites to get an idea of how accurate it is.

Then off to work. :mad:

[dog-man]

Hmmm, still only getting around 58% signal strength from 19.2e.

It should be booming in.

Can't do anymore today, have to get ready for work.

To make matters worse, it looks like the dishwasher is not working and she who must be obeyed wants it fixed asap.
I would prefer to buy her a pair of marigolds!

[echelon]

well, we did possibly think that either way of fixing it should work with 27.4 degrees as that elevation is within both sets of parameters

at least your dish and motor now match mine and manic01`s with the notch on the right looking from the front of the dish into the dish face (or the left looking from the rear)

I am now more inclined to think its the receiver or image as I have never liked using the linux boxes for this task anyway, give me a spiderbox anytime due to the fact it shows signal and quality easily and I find it extremely reliable in ascertaining these details and tracking through the arc with good indication of what you are receiving (just checked my duo on 13e and 19e from a multi lnb dish and they seem low level too but the channels work fine)

so I would try another - different type of receiver for comparison

[dog-man]

I have just noticed that the green and red led's under the supreme intelligent dark motor are not always flashing like they are supposed to be.

If I restart my vuduo running openpli 3, they will flash again as they should for a while and they will stop again.

I wonder what is causing this.

I shall check all cable connections tomorrow but the ones to and from the motor seem fine.

[dog-man]

I have had some time today to look into my problem between heavy bursts of rain.

I am now getting somewhere, thankfully.

I discovered that the f connector from the darkmotor to my signal meter was oversized and wasn't fully engaging or tightening, so I have sorted that.

I was still having problems with low signal levels until I stored 0.8 west as number 1 sat in the VUDUO's memory. The signal then shot up to 89% from about 54%.

So, am I supposed to manually store satellite positions in memory with the VUDUO using Usals?

I thought as long as I had my correct long / lat figure and the pole was level and the dish aligned it would find all satellites with very little input from me.
Is this not true?

I have watched the utd / stoke game and am currently watching the city / stoke game both on 7w with no breakups / blockiness at all. Signal levels on the HD channels on 7w are 58% with dark rain clouds and heavy rain.

My dish will need further fine tuning but I can do that another day when it is not raining.

I also notice that my dish turns very slowly with Usals and the dark motor compared to my old 36v jaeger. Is there anything I can do to increase the movement speed?


dog-man

[echelon]

I cannot answer for the vu boxes as regards signal and quality levels except to say I have never found them reliable and I have mentioned at least twice in this thread that I would not use one to line up a motor or dish, I always use a spiderbox for this task but have used the tm1500 previously

usals uses your longitude and latitude to determine where each satellite is, nothing is stored as such, although you can assign local positions to each satellite position, especially useful if you were using a vbox

as for the motor, I have never heard any ideas on speeding up the diseqc motors , they are what they are, and go at the speed they are designed for, which is probably slower than a 36v jack + actuator

ie:- it is what it is

[TK4|2|1]

You've tried and tried and got no where, pay an expert and be done. It's a 5 minute job.


Sent from my iThing using sorcery and the magic interweb.

[dog-man]

I suspect that in reality, the dark motor supreme cannot cope with the weight of the Triax 1.1mtr despite claims to the contrary.

I also purchased a dark motor non supreme some time ago, and although it proudly claimed that it could move a 1.1 mtr dish, it really struggled with my 1.1 mtr Triax dish and would give up and stop moving unless I helped by pushing it by hand!

There also seems to be a problem with my vuduo running openpli 3 not remembering the settings saved for all satellites.

A glitch or something else?, I don't know at the moment, but something is very wrong, and it's not me at fault!

[dog-man]

I will never pay for it to be installed as I really do know what I am doing, but just cannot figure out what is wrong here.

If anything, I shall abandon usals and go back to disecq which I am experienced at using.



dog-man

[echelon]

I have had my triax TD110 for about 12 years and its been on a stab h2h 120 , a moteck sg2100 and now a darkmotor superior and no problems with any of them apart from the first 2 motors ended up with play in the gearing. my darkmotor has been up for about 18 months and I have had no issues with it or my 1.1m triax dish, running from a spiderbox (so I disagree with your assumptions about using a td110 on a darkmotor)

in fact, you do not see anyone else apart from you complaining about these dishes and motors, the majority of us use them both quite successfully

I believe you have too many variables in your system , so you have nothing that you can bet your life on in order to do the job

I still have my trusty tm1500 , and a spiderbox, either of which I can use to line up my motor using usals or diseqc, and knowing I can trust either of them implicitly (my spiderbox has been used to line up a few dishes and motors over the years)

on the other hand I dont trust any linux box or its images at all with a motor, never having had much luck with them on any motor, I even had trouble using my lads solo running BH to realign his sly dish when we changed his lnb to a quad, so I had to use the tm1500 just to be sure

[gbmitie]

its the aim of the dish thats wrong, if you stand behind it when dish is at 0( zero) then everything should align in a dead straight line its sound easy but its not. that dark motor has a line in it that I use for centering, the triax fixing is not that great, I count the screw threads, the lnb arm could be sagging, the pole might be crushed slightly, and you may have an obstruction, lnb should be a black ultra. I would concentrate on 0.8w get bbc word at 98% quality or better where you are. there is a video on u tube about motorised and it shows the alignment with 3 dots.

and i use a spiderbox to move dark motor.

and when you get it sorted post back.

[dog-man]

I seem to also have a problem where the motor will not move at all when it should.
The only two ways to get it going again is to either do a restart / reboot of my image (openpli 3) or do a search for channels on any satellite. The dish will then move to that sat and scan in the channels.

I wonder if my image is corrupt?

I may well re-flash the image again and start from scratch.

I am using 0.8w as a starting point and can get that at about 89% on BBC World, but 19.2e only comes in around 55%. It has always come in at around 90% or more.

Nothing in the way and I get the same problems with my new black ultra and my old smart lnb.

My pole is definitely level, I have a proper post level (I have two and have used both).

I shall wait for a good day weather wise and start again from scratch, checking everything.

[gbmitie]

It sounds like the USALS in the receiver you are using is not accurate. You can tweak the usals by adjusting the location minutely. Say you are on 0.8w and you have usals at 0.898w and 51.9n, then change the settings minutely so that dish will step either east or west. eg use 1.000w and 51.6n, save it and dish will move, check signal levels etc. Another way is to switch to diseq on 0.8w and peak the signal, if you cant get close to 98 then dish is out.

but what receiver are you using and do you have a spare receiver to try?

[dog-man]

I am using a vuduo.

I have some receivers laying around gathering dust, such as a DB7020, a Humax HD2000, and maybe a few other older ones.

The vuduo has always worked faultlessly.

It's only the lnb and the motor that are a new addition, and the fact I am now using Usals. I get the same problems on my old lnb too.

I am going to re-flash my image with todays downloadable image and see if the problems continue and take it from there.
I have a very large hammer waiting to smash everything to pieces as I am losing my patience now! :)

[echelon]

firstly , you need to take an anger management course if its really getting to you that much
(as a dog-man you are being too DOG-MAtic in your approach to this)

secondly, as has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions, you need to rely on a receiver that is reliable and giving you accurate and correct results, one that you can trust implicitly to help you set your motor up

clearly the linux boxes are not helping you to set up this motor (they have never helped me either as I have mentioned throughout this thread) and the fact that its all down to various images never helps either

use a bespoke box (not linux) and add a channel list and use that to setup fta on your motor , and until that has been done forget about using your duo or dreamboxes, if necessary borrow or buy a cheap tm1500 or tm5000 series or 6000 series or anything similar that is cheap and gets the job done

once you have set up the motor correctly with the bespoke box (half an hour with a spiderbox), you can then use the bespoke box as a positioner whilst you setup your linux boxes accordingly

only when you have done the above are you then in a position to try to use the linux boxes as both positioners and to check signals etc because you have then eliminated all the other variables apart from the linux box + image

in other words, I have no doubt most of your troubles lie in trying to use a linux box you dont trust to setup your new motor and dish and lnb

[dog-man]

But I have used a Linux box for several years when setting up and they have never let me down.

I am now wondering if there is a fault with my vuduo, because I am getting more instances of the motor simply not moving at all when selecting a channel on a different satellite.
When this happens, there is usually no indication on screen that it is moving.

All connections have been double checked and are ok.

I shall dig out another box when I have time and the weather is good.

As for anger management, a good thrash around with the hammer will cure it! :)

[echelon]

perhaps when you have stopped all the messing, you might want to follow the advice by myself and gbmitie and use a box you know can do the job when aligning motors and dishes, tried and tested over the same period you are talking about, but less likely to be the box or image or patch causing problems

maybe your humax can do this ? (I have no idea)

but if you want to retain your sanity you need to ditch the linux boxes whilst doing this task, that is as obvious as the shard is a tall tower in london !

[dog-man]

Before I use another receiver (non Linux) I am just trying a re-flash of the image and so far the dish is moving to a satellite every time, but early days yet to be confident.

I am sure I have a manhatten receiver somewhere that I can try.

[echelon]

I thought the manhatten needed a vbox with diseqc motors, but if it is diseqc its got to be worth a go

[dog-man]

Its a Manhattan Plaza xt-cm. I purchased it purely for blind scanning some years ago.
The front of the receiver states it has diseqc and usals.

Just started raining and its in for the rest of the day allegedly, so rain stops play.

I have just remembered that my TBS 6925 has diseqc facility, not sure about usals, so that's another possibility.

[dog-man]

As it is raining, I am busy manually scanning satellites and so far, the motor has worked flawlessly so perhaps the image was corrupt.

Time will tell! :)

[dog-man]

Sadly after scanning all the satellites my dish can see from my location, the dish not moving problem was there again.

After some investigation, it seems that I had configured the two tuners incorrectly.

I configured tuner 'A' as simple / positioner.
I configured tuner 'B' as equal to tuner 'A'.

Tuner 'B' should have been set as 'loop through to tuner 'A'.

It seems to be functioning correctly now.

Now, I can double check the pole, and dish alignment knowing that the dish is moving correctly to where it should be moving to.

Rain stops play, but at least I am now on my way to finally sorting this out. :)

[tobyman6]

Hi dog-man,
I,ve been trying for weeks to get a complete arc from 30 deg West to 42 deg East,using a Supreme Dark motor.
No matter how I set up I always end up with a part arc,
Ive tried every combination of elevation/declination angles, diseqc 1.2 /usals,repositioned goto 0,all with same results never a complete arc !
Ive also noticed the LED gives different positions to actual ie 48 E instead of 42 E ( .8W as .8W ) 32W instead of 30W
My mount pole is perfectly vertical.
By altering just the declination angle of the dish from where it is set on 42 E to a different angle for 30W I pick up the satellites every time, so i know the motor is stopping at the right positions,but the arc is never right!
When I set my old motor CRYPTIK (Stab) back up from scratch within 15 mins i,ve get the complete arc,
I,ve set up on 2 different vertical mounts and get same results from both
This is making me think the geometry of the Supreme motor is not correct!
Any thoughts ??
Regards ,
toby

[echelon]

Hi dog-man,
I,ve been trying for weeks to get a complete arc from 30 deg West to 42 deg East,using a Supreme Dark motor.
No matter how I set up I always end up with a part arc,
Ive tried every combination of elevation/declination angles, diseqc 1.2 /usals,repositioned goto 0,all with same results never a complete arc !
Ive also noticed the LED gives different positions to actual ie 48 E instead of 42 E ( .8W as .8W ) 32W instead of 30W
My mount pole is perfectly vertical.
By altering just the declination angle of the dish from where it is set on 42 E to a different angle for 30W I pick up the satellites every time, so i know the motor is stopping at the right positions,but the arc is never right!
When I set my old motor CRYPTIK (Stab) back up from scratch within 15 mins i,ve get the complete arc,
I,ve set up on 2 different vertical mounts and get same results from both
This is making me think the geometry of the Supreme motor is not correct!
Any thoughts ??
Regards ,
toby

I think the problem with some of your post is that like 99% of people doing this, you think that the degree indicator on the motor relates to the actual degree position relative to the zero true south of all of the satellites (you incorrectly believe they should be exactly the same)

it doesnt, not unless you are actually on the greenwich meridian anyway (as zero on the motor is zero on the meridian)

so let us assume that 13e hotbird was your true south, then your zero pointer (or led) would be on zero but your true meridian is 13e, meaning that in theory 30 west is 43 degrees west of your true south , however your motor is still pointing at 13e when reading zero

but if you were in western ireland at say 5.0w then your zero would point at 5w satellite and hotbird would in theory be 18 degrees east of you

so because the zero meridian of greenwich was placed here in the uk we are not far away from the zero marker on motors and so we tend to forget this when we align them, meaning we are normally a few degrees out and this upsets the arc

so in my case I am more than 2 degrees away from the greenwich meridian and so my darkmotor superior zero is set to around 2.5w (or maybe more towards 5.0w) meaning that if I park my dish on 30w the motor pointer is obviously not on 30w as you seem to expect, but is going to be a few degrees out from this on the motor pointer, and yet the motor is actually pointed at 30w and fox sports comes booming in, similarly if I am on bulsat on 39e the motor pointer is not going to point at 39e but something a few degrees away from that

when you also take into account the latitude setting of the motor has a bearing on all of this (unless you were in greenwich) then its fair to say that for most people the motor pointer is never going to relate to the actual sat position, but you have assumed they are one and the same, never forget that the word ASSUME contains ASS U ME !!

so I would discount this completely, make sure your pole is plumb , that your zero marker is pointing at your true south (your longitude), the motor latitude elevation is on your exact latitude , and start from all of those those non-variables

set the usals on your box to your gps position (your longitude and latitude) and select say thor at 0.8w , bbc world news or sly news , the motor will go to where it determines thor to be from your gps, this may well not be 0.8w on the led indicator (unless your true south is 0.00), but you can be assured its where it thinks thor is located according to your longitude and latitude, so really you IGNORE the led or motor pointer at this point as you know that the box has sent it to the correct position, then you find thor my moving the motor mount left or right and the dish elevation up or down , and lock it up and test it

ps:- I think you made a typo here as they are both the same ( .8W as .8W )

[grafter]

This is making me think the geometry of the Supreme motor is not correct!

Not relevant to your problem but I've only set up one Dark Motor and no matter how we tried to reset/send to zero it always went back so the indicator and seam were about 2E. Following that line through the dish and boom it was obvious to see that it was not straight. I got it tracking OK in the end but it took longer than normal and I definitely don't want to see another one, nasty bit of junk!

One of my dishes is on a 2100A and when I put the dish on it I took a photo from underneath that showed both the motor and dish, dropped it into Paintshop and drew a line from the LNB to the back of the motor, you can very quickly see how accurate the alignment is. As Echelon says eliminating the non variables before you start the L/R U/D stuff really is worth the extra few minutes it takes to do.

[tobyman6]

Thanks for your helpful replies.
@ echelon,
My Latitude is 2.21 west so I have set thor at 3.0 west as a starting point.
So i would expect my arc to be 33 west (30w) to 39 east (42E) ish !
However my LED gives a larger arc reading 33W to 45 E,
The scale on the elevation angle is clear but the pointer is very poor, and hard to guage,
However I have set latitude well above and below the elevation angle ( and every position inbetween) and have not been able to get the full arc correct
That is why I,m thinking the Dark Motor,s geometry might be wrong, especially as Ive set my old Cryptik motor in exactly the same way and get a full arc.
(I,d also add that when i stripped my old Cryptik motor down , i could nt believe how well it was made, steel worm gear , all brass gears, rebuilt and its as good as when puchased some 15 yrs ago - very basic compared to new models but built to last)
@ grafter,
Thanks for your Paintshop tip, will use it!

[echelon]

if you are at 2.21 west of the greenwich meridian then with thor being only 0.8 east of the greenwich meridian its actually 1.41 east of you, not at 3 west as you seem to think , so you appear to have set up your system as if you are at approx 2.1 east ( in the north sea off great yarmouth, or at DUNKIRK, not on a line with Stoke-On-trent), not west, a difference of about 4.4 degrees, so its no wonder you do not track the arc correctly !

2.21w - 0.8w = 1.41 east (of your location) for thor

3 west of you is actually the strong satellite at 5 west, eutelsat 5w a (2.79w of you) with hispasat at about 27.8w of you

clearly you still did not take onboard my point that your motor zero marker points at true south, in your case 2.21 west, also your latitude changes the way the motor reacts as well, but I also mentioned that you should IGNORE your motor markers and use the fixed points I mentioned of pole being plumb, latitude fixed to your actual latitude and the lnb having no skew when its on the true south marker of zero on the motor ( so little or no skew at 0.8w either) and use usals after setting your box up with your location

so if you are going to mark a motor with thor using a black marker or tippex, mark it at about 1.5 east on the motor markings, not 3 west, drive the motor to it and stop, disconnect the motor and go to the lnb itself and use bbc world news or sly news to locate thor, and lock it all up

or use your marker at 3w to find eutelsat 5w and lock it up as that is more like what it should be

ps , its your LONGITUDE that is 2.21w , not your latitude , your latitude will be somewhere between about 51 and 58 north

so the only things I can see wrong are your definitions and your computations, not your motor

[tobyman6]

Problem solved !!
Silly mistake ,would have been easier to have set up either side of true south ie 7 E for 5E or as you advised 3W for 5W,
However my big problem , was the latitude setting, in their manual they give you both latitude & elevation angles
I thought the scale on the motor was in elevation ,when I looked closer it was latitude, so I was somewhere in the Mediterranean. ( thats why i was questioning the geometry of the motor)
I got the angles backwards.
Thanks for your help,