Spiderbox power circuit board

[blackie42]

Hi,

Spiderbox turns on for a few mins then off - tracked it down to a melted transistor on the power board.

Does anyone know which transistor/capacitor this is so I can replace it and see if it fixes the problem.

Attached some pics...638826388063881

thanks
Jon

[jbvid]

C23 capacitor looks to be blown, just replace it, it will have its value written on it.
jb

[blackie42]

Thanks for the reply however not sure it is the C23 cap which looks Ok,
its the component in front of that cap thats blown -its got 3 'legs' and is black half round.
No expert but i tlooks like it could be the IC2 (not sure what IC refers) as the C23 & R13 look undamaged.
Just sent for a new soldering iron as mines broke (sensing a trend here) so I can remove it and see if any clue.

Anyone know where I can find a circuit diagram for the 9000?

Looks ilke it might have to go in the bin if I cant get the right component.

thanks
Jon

[echelon]

I looked at a 7000 psu board but its different

the component you describe sounds like a transistor alright, an Integrated Circuit, or IC , although IC tend to be chips and not transistors, but you could well be right

my worry is this, if the transistor failed in the manner shown and described, it sounds to me as if another component may have failed and the effect was to blow the IC, therefore even if you replace the transistor, it could blow again if another component caused the failure

ie:- CAUSE , ,,,,,,, and EFFECT

so my thoughts are that something has blown the transistor, not that the transistor has blown, so a subtle but essential difference

[jeetley2]

Hi
To read the value of the capacitor you have to remove the blob of glue on the side of the capacitor. It may read like 47uF 50v etc. It may not be this value & could be different. Component next to it is a transistor. The value is on the flat side of the transistor. Have you checked the capacitor with the capacitor leakage bridge. Without that meter you can't be certain if its ok. Normally faulty or leaky capacitor shows a bulge on the top where cross is marked. If there is a slight leakage in the capacitor the system wouldn't work. Moreover Transistors don't melt. They go open circuit mostly when they become faulty. That transistor on the board seems like a low voltage device. Its not a power transistor. Power transistors are attached to the heat sinks. Regards

[blackie42]

Yep - probably right but plan on trying to identify it and change it anyway - if not looks like the bin.

Do you know who manufactures/d the Spidebox 9000? Maybe I could mail them for help?

[vamas]

I had similar problem and my technician told me to scrap it as he could not get all parts needed. (I do miss it and now my 9900 seems to be on the blink too!)

[TonyO]

I recently replaced all the caps on a spider 9k power supply, its a tedious job but it works fine again now, all the caps are available on the Flea bae site or from far east at no or little postage.

Here's two images that show where which caps are on the board, they were a bugger to get out but easy to replace, the problem removing the caps was because they are crimped at the end to hold them on the board before they were soldered, this means even with a desoldering va***e tool they did not want to come out easily, and they are close together.

I'll include a list of them all when I find the paper they are written on, its in the garage somewhere.
---------------------------------
CAPS LIST

C01 82uf 450v 105c
C02
C03 47uf 50v 85c
C04
C05
C06
C07
C08
C09 1000uf 16v 105c
C10 470uf 35v 85c
C11 2200uf 10v 105c
C12 330uf 25v 85c
C13 1000uf 25v 105c
C14 1000uf 16v 105c
C15 1000uf 10v 85c
C16 47uf 10v 105c
C17 1000uf 10v 85c
C18 10uf 35v 85c
C19 470uf 16v 105c
C20
C21 100uf 35v 85c
C22 220uf 16v 85c
C23
C24 1uf 50v 85c
C28 470uf 10v 85c

extra caps needed, doubled up or not identified where on board diagram, blank spaces are caps not used on board.

c-- 220uf 16v 85c
c-- 470uf 16v 105c
c-- 1uf 50v 85c

There is an extra cap not listed in the diagram to the right of C15 (1uf 50v 85c)

[williamtell]

Yep - probably right but plan on trying to identify it and change it anyway - if not looks like the bin.

Do you know who manufactures/d the Spidebox 9000? Maybe I could mail them for help?don,t hold your hopes there mate/the korean boys just didn`t want to know re repairs/i still have 2 a 6000hd &9900hd almost new with f100,s

[blackie42]

Wow TonyO - pretty comprehensive list of components there.

Sounds like a mammoth task - will have a look at the weekend

I do have another Box VU+ but liked the simplicity of the Spider - not that fussed with all the bells of the Enigma Box

thanks again

regards
Jon

[blackie42]

Rather than replace each component isn't it possible to check them individually with a multimeter?

[TonyO]

I bought a new multi meter for that very purpose, only one range worked the rest don't, the big 82uf 450v one was the only one I could measure which was only 76uf, it should still work but if they all 7% down maybe it causes probs.

I'll get a purpose built cap meter when I get back off hols, I leave in a day so it will be a while.

[mike p]

Hi,

If you are planning to check/test the capacitors with a meter I suggest that you either remove
the capacitor fully or de solder and lift one leg from the pcb because you can't do these tests while the capacitor is connected in circuit due to the fact there might be parallel connections which will make or provide an alternate circuit path making the test void.

Kind Regards,
Mike.

[TonyO]

I replaced all of them, and the box works ok again.

I've just tested all of the ones I removed which are on the bench, not on the circuit board.

As my multimeter has probs with capacitance, I've done the resistance test which only tells you if the cap is dead not what its capacitance is, none were dead.

This will have to wait till I get back from hols.

[jeetley2]

Hi
Most of the power supply faults occur in the output stage. There are 4 important rails going to the main board namely 3.3v, 5v, 12v and 24v that runs the main board. If any of these rail is not there or very low the main board will not work. Best way is to check all the output rails first before condemning the capacitors. Some times fault occurs due to a dry joint in the power board. Capacitors in the output stage are the culprit most of the time. Very rarely primary stage components cause any problem apart from the fuse blown due to bridge rectifier short circuit. Cheapest thing to do is to change all the output capacitors first with 105 degree C temperature one. Regards

[althetaff]

It may be a bit late and it looks like we had the same fault.

The IC is a TL431, I replaced mine too but to no avail. I'm an electronics engineer and had a lot of resources to hand but alas failed to repair my box :)

I think the resin holding the IC to the electrolytic is melted but the IC may still be good.
You will have dificulty measurung electrolytic capacitors without a bridge that can apply a positve DC voltage during measurement as this is how they work. They need the positve dc voltage to deliver the capacitance.

You can normally tell if an electrolytic is blown as the cross on the top will be bulging.

Electrolytics are typically plus or minus 20% so 7% low is good.

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/showthread.php?162279-9000HD-power-supply-voltages&highlight=

I did not though replace every capacitor so just because they do not look blown they still could be duff.

Mine was at the end of it's IKS so I bought a HD6000 instead so that was why I gave up LOL

Good luck
Al

Al

[mike p]

Hi,

Another great piece of equipment for troubleshooting capacitors is a ESR meter (Equivalent Series Resistance). This meter is handy out too as most come now a days with a built in capacitance range check and can also be used in circuit depending on the manufacturer. A DMM set to Ohm range can be used to determine if a capacitor is gone short or open circuit unfortunetly it has its limitations and cannot measure ESR. Capacitance meters are great also for giving capacitance readings however just because it gives its correct measurement does not always deem the component itself Good. Even after carrying out the above steps the capacitor can still be deemed Bad due to a high ESR level. Even though capacitance is important the ESR is equally as important. A Bad capacitor may possess perfect capacitance but yet possess high ESR and it is this high ESR that causes the issues unfortunetly. A capacitor with a high ESR level can cause over heating issues, disruption to the flow of current and depending on the circuit used affect time constants etc, Over time this ESR level will keep increasing untill the component itself fails thus resulting in circuit failure itself.

Kind Regards,
Mike.

[jbvid]

Hi,
A capacitor with a high ESR level can cause over heating issues, disruption to the flow of current and depending on the circuit used affect time constants etc, Over time this ESR level will keep increasing untill the component itself fails thus resulting in circuit failure itself.

Kind Regards,
Mike.
Hi Mike
Very interesting post, most of the earlier Spiderbox versions 7000, 9000, 9900 etc with the (inside the box) power supply seemed to fail with overheating problems.
jb

[blackie42]

63906

[blackie42]

Looks 63907like main cap is busted on closer inspection
Is the IC TL431CLP Shunt Adjustable Precision Reference -per Amazon search?

[tvsnik]

as a x tv eng you have to test the transistor the brown glue is to stop hf vibrations if any help i have a working power board

[skomedal]

63906

C23 looks like the culprit here.

Remove get a new one with same or better specs, replace remembering the correct polarity.

[skomedal]

63982

C23 vomiting or maybe just ectoplasm leaking?

[frund]

I have the easy to use 7000 and having read posts here i realise this post was un necessary.

[floydy007]

hi ,
Many thanks for the info guys ,its helped a lot .
Have had the same issue on my 6yr old 9000HD for about 2 months now ,first it wasn't holding the time ,then recently its started to completely freeze approx. every 15 mins .Had to turn off/on again
Had been running the 2012 FW ,saw there was a 2014 one and upgraded ..strangely and most of all a relief ,the freezing has stopped ..I hope :)) .
As a precaution though have ordered the caps from F*****Ls.
Been running for 3 hours now ..all's ok ....so far