Loader problem..updating TMS 1500ci+

[ekon]

Instead of taking the stb to my PC in the next room to do updates I wired a serial cable (only used pins 2,3 &5) through the wall to a (male) rs232 wall socket I made up near where the stb is housed. I joined it up to the TM with the null modem cable I've been using. I did this on Sunday & I successsfully loaded the new patch 20/09/07 and the latest softcam keys...all fine.

Next day the Loader (V1.8.7) would not work? I updated the D+ keys using the remote (worked ok). I thought may be there was a problem with the wiring I'd done so today I uncoupled the TM & took it to the PC...hooked them up with the null modem cable..& same problem!? I've tried reloading the loader but no difference.

Heres what happens:The power switch on the TM is on but the box is not..open Loader..click on auto-detect with com 1 (always used that) selected..after about four seconds of seeing the message "Connect your receiver and turn it on" ..I get the "pop-up" box with COM1 in the blue bar at the top and the message "version 2.37 detected" In the blue bar the message changes to "Found STB at COM!" and then back to "COM1! and so on. I dont remember if I used to get the message "Connect your receiver and turn it on" before ..or waited 4 secs to see the "Version2.** detected" message? I have done this hundereds of times with never a problem..almost automatically like many of you.

Anyway..next stage having exited the auto detect mode..browse for the file eg softcam..select that file then click on "Connect". Again that message for a few seconds blue bar with Com1..& "Connect your receiver and turn it on" At this stage the box is powered up but not switched on (as in to view channels)..I dont think I ever did that?....after a few seconds the "Version 2.37 detected.." message comes up..so far so good.

..but then when I click on "Start" as usual in the "pop-up" box I get a grey(blanked out) box and after a second or so it disappears and I return to the original screen?? Once or twice after 2 or 3 goes it actually starts to download but only gets to 11%(?) and stops!! and just sits there. This happens whether or not the TM is switched on by the remote or front panel..or if its just on standby power (on at the rear rocker switch).

Any suggestions??..maybe I did domething to to the serial port in the TM or circuitry? The PC device manager says comport1 is working fine. As I said the box works fine.. and I can update keys with the remote ok.. but I was trying to reduce hassle not increase it!!

[ekon]

simple question..anyone?

When you open the Loader (1.8.7) with the stb connected and press "Auto Detect" do you get in the blue bar of the popup box a constant message saying: "Found STB at com1!"...(or whichever comport..2..3.. you use)?

At the moment I get that message for 1 second varying intermittently (every 3 secs approx) with a message saying: "Com1" ..I can't remember what is normal behaviour as I never ever had problems updating!? Could someone check for me please.

Thanks
ekon

[TheBadger]

:confused: Sounds like you have recently developed an intermittent fault with your computer's RS232 connector - probably when you started messing with your ne cable!

[ekon]

Badger..thanks for replying...apppreciate it.

You may be right as the likelihood of both my TMs developing a similar fault at the same time is presumably v.low. I thought maybe I had affected the TMS1500 in some way as it is the one that I update daily..but my other TM (a 1000D) only looks at Hotbird and as such does not need regular daily updates ands was not connected up until after the problem arose. Is it possible that I have shorted the RS232 connector in the laptop "sub-deck" (the lappy itself has no 9pin rs232)...or is more likely a physical problem? Its an old laptop but up until now has been fine.

The Device Manager in Control Panel says the comport is ok and if I use WSP I can see the port opening and shutting in the log as I press start/stop...but if the fault is with the connector I suppose it that could still happen. I cant test WSP with the box itself to see if that works as my sub to art sports has just expired!

Last night after trying for ages I did get the lappy to send..I was trying to resend the 2.37 patch ..each 1% took 10 seconds! After that nothing again. Will investigate, I think Ill try to upload my channel list to the lappy using the TM downloader and see if it'll do that.

[bgsats]

"The Device Manager in Control Panel says the comport is ok" ................................. ..So did mine on my previous PC after Com 2 went up in smoke (quite literally)!

[ekon]

So is it more likely to be an electronic problem with the rs232 connector or a physical connectivity issue. I did use a gender changer in the laptop's rs232 connector as an intemediary as the serial lead I made up had male connectors.

[bgsats]

I suppose it's quite unlikely the com port has just gone faulty - the point I was making was that it's possible, despite what Device Manager says. The procedure I use is as follows:-
First select Com 1 manually - I've never used Auto detect. Connect the receiver direct to the com port with a factory made null modem lead. Leave the rocker switch on the back of the receiver in the "off" position, connect the mains lead from the receiver to a live mains socket.
Load the software into the 1.87 loader, and click "connect". When prompted to turn on the receiver, turn on the rocker switch. Firmware loads straight away. For Channels or keys, you will see "start" appear after a few seconds - click on that.
You say you're using a gender changer - you probably know you can't just use a gender changer and a standard serial lead, or the pin-out will be wrong. Have you actually used the same combination of lead and gender changer successfully? Do you have a ready made null modem lead?

[ekon]

>bgsats...I used to bring the TM to the computer..a pain. So as I said in my initial postI made up a serial extension lead (done it before..pins 2,3,5 to 2,3,5) and ran it from the laptop through adjacent party-wall to the TV room where at the other end i connected the 3 wires to a rs232 connector in a wall mounted socket..(home made..but again I have done this before in another house and had no problems). I then used a (bought-in) null-modem canble from the wall mounted (serial) socket to the sat recvr. First time I did it it worked fine..downloaded latest patch and the softcam key for that evening.
Next day it wouldn't work? I knew the connection at the laptop end was good so i demounted the wall mounrted socket and thought that maybe one of the wires pin2 had moved slightly and was touching pin3..so separated them well and put a piece of tape between 2&3 wires (have to admit soldering those sockets I do find a tiny bit tricky). anyway..ttired it again before screwing the mounting plate back into the wall..worked ok..downlodea current softcam. Same happened next day..did the same thing.but this time the pin3 wire was loose so resoldered it so thai it is ok. no dice though from thenon in. reckon when i screwed the mounting plate back into the wall socket (recessed type not pattress) I dislodged the wire on 3 and maybe it shorted something in the laptop?

The gender changer was only necessary (between the lappy socket and the serial extension I made up) because the lappy rs232 is a male and so were the fittngs I had for making the extension cable..so I had a 2x female changer and used that.

[bgsats]

Not sure whether you've taken the receiver close to the laptop again, and used the bought-in null modem lead on its own - if not, well worth a try.

[ekon]

yes done that..nothing..reckon I have a com port/rs232 connector problem..maybe with my ****-poor soldering I shorted something in or around the rs232 connector..I will make up a loopthrough plug for the rs232 and test it with some software off the net..pain!
Something's not right with the lappy I believe ..not sure if its a s/ware problem with the comport or a hardware problem?..probably the latter...so going to be easiest to buy a usb>serial convertor I think ..unless anyone has any tips on fixing a dodgy comport/rs232 connector. As you can probably tell I'm a little out of my depth on this one!

[TheBadger]

:confused: Is the problem present with a factory made null modem cable? If not it could be your soldering. If that's fine it could be a problem with the connector - bent or shorted pins or it's connection to the computer (could be a "dry" joint). Also I thought null modem cables had a crossover in them 2-3, 3-2. So if you've wired up 2-2, 3-3 that's where your problem is. Try connecting the null modem cable and you lead in series (end to end) and see if that solves your problem. Whenever I update my TM 1600 I never have to turn it off - it's permanently connected to my desktop via a home made 10m lead. Just re-read your latest post. Don't think you've shorted anything out in the lappy - currents involved are minute. Most likely your soldering in the wall-plate.

[ekon]

> The Badger..nice to be in a dialogue with someone with undoubted experience of the satellite world. I have read your posts for many moons and learned a lot. Yes the problem is still there with a direct link from the lappy to the TMS1500 via a bought-in n/m cable that has worked faultlessly for 2 years.

I initially made up a serial-lead extension to the next room..probably similar to yours..male plug at laptop end ( I had 4 spare male fiitings and a 2x female gender changer to go in the male laptop socket)....& a male fitting at the other end.. but this one is Evo-sticked into a suitable "hole" in a standard white plastic blanking wallplate (...& into which the bought-in null modem cable then goes..and on to the TMS1500 itself). Must stress.. this worked fine first time I used it.

Did this years ago in another house and used the lead (10m +) to open channels using WCE with my TM Dapci 5000 & season interface for many years.

Because I don't trust my soldering (my eyes are not what they were) that's why when the problem manifested itself I just brought the TM back to the laptop and fitted the null-modem cable direct to it as I had done hundreds of times before. That's when I was gutted ..as it no longer worked??! as it had done almost daily for the 18 months I've had the TM 1500. I don't suspect the n/m cable at the moment ..which is a very robust moulded-plug affair. The Darkman loader I reloaded..its not that I'm sure cos I loaded an official TM loader today and tried to upload my channel list..it does see the TM..(v2.37 etc) and started to upload..but went very slowly and stopped at 20%?

So I reckon for some reason the rs232 connector is dodgy or I have a s/ware comport type problem. The TM works absolutely fine thank God.. but at the moment I am unable to try a download of a new softcam to it as I have no usb>serial converter (I only have one serial port on the lappy but usbs aplenty). I have a new Compaq laptop as well as the old Tosh thats used for satellite duties..but it has no serial port only multiple usbs..why do they do that!?

I shall endeavour to make up a loopthrough-type test plug for the 232 connector/port and try to find some suitable comport testing software for XP as soon as I can get hold of a suitable i.e. female 232 connector to make up the loopthrough-plug.

All very interesting but all I wanted was easy softcam upgrading for D+!

[ekon]

UPDATE...> Badger..thanks for saying you didnt think I'd shorted out anything..it got me thinking. So I did a sytem restore to the day before I had the problem..then fetched the recvr to the lappy..connected up the n/m cable &........ hey presto downloaded the latest D+ softcam in no time..weird...all fine now... I think.

Maybe something got corrupted in the software????

[TheBadger]

:D Pleased you got it sorted! I've had to use your solution a couple of times for other things. Computers are great when they behave and when they don't they drive you crackers! Fortunately the hardware is a lot more robust than in the early days but the over-complicated software sometimes screws everything up.;)

[bgsats]

Are you going to test your extension cable now, or would that be tempting fate?

[ekon]

>bgsats..I shall get my best glasses out and check the connections on the two ends of the lead and give it a go. I don't know what happened..wish I did but could be unrelated as I have been having a bit of a "spring-clean" of my laptop and maybe CCleaner or similar tweaking affected the comport driver??..clutching at straws really..I wish I did know what had caused the problem.
You know gender changers (the part not the people)..well mine is female too female and was the connector from the male rs232 port on the lappy to the male 232 fitting on the end of my made-up serial lead ( I didnt have any female bits around when i made the lead up..if you know what I mean!). Well mine is different either side..ie it has the wide part of the (female) socket at the "top" on one side whereas its the narrow part uppermost on the other side..hard to say it but you know the 2 sides are opposite/upside down ..not symmetrical on each side..why is that? Are all gender changers like that?..cant see why it isn't easier to have the wide part (5pin) at the top on both sides and the narrow bit (4 pins ) at the bottom on both sides of the changer? This part doesnt make a serial a null modem does it?..no crossover happening..its straight-wired isnt it? All it says on it is "Gender changer U.S. pat: 5190481"

[bgsats]

Don't know why some are like that - best to check the connections with a meter.

[ekon]

all works fine with my extension cable..thanks to those who helped me..bgsats and The Badger.

[echelon]

new d+ patch in the stickies up top :)