Db 8000

[brain]

Hi guys
Can anyone confirm - the box is available on a dutch satellite site for sale at 799E -*******.tv - anyone ordered one yet - Cheers - brain

[xanadu]

I doubt the DM8000 is in stock and for sale anywhere just yet. :cool:

November is the expected shipping date from China, but that could change as we all know. :rolleyes:

Online stores are probably just getting ready for when it eventually arrives.

[vinny0048]

I doubt the DM8000 is in stock and for sale anywhere just yet. :cool:

November is the expected shipping date from China, but that could change as we all know. :rolleyes:

Online stores are probably just getting ready for when it eventually arrives.

Is it going to arrive??? I thought that Dream multimedia couldn't get the HDCP licence making it a no go.

[xanadu]

Is it going to arrive??? I thought that Dream multimedia couldn't get the HDCP licence making it a no go.

It will not have HDMI.

DM8000 will have DVI.

The delay was caused by shortage and cost of MPEG-4 decoder chips.

[vinny0048]

It will not have HDMI.

DM8000 will have DVI.

The delay was caused by shortage and cost of MPEG-4 decoder chips.

fingers crossed, I really want one. Been itching to buy a HD rx for a while.

Just out of interest, DVI - is it as good as HDMI/Component?

[norman11]

It looks like there is cables available for DVI to HDMI conversion, but to what extent the picture quality is changed (if any) I don't know.:)

[ian_t_baxter]

Hi guys
Can anyone confirm - the box is available on a dutch satellite site for sale at 799E -*******.tv - anyone ordered one yet - Cheers - brain


Can you pm me the website please

Cheers
Ian

[xanadu]

The DM8000 has been delayed again, as I mentioned in another post.

They have found problems with the hardware in production, so doubt we are going to see a DM8000 this year. :frown:

[kosmo]

If I can ask what problems with hardware.the prototype is ready or not (with license&hardware).if it is ready then the product go to the next level-production.

kosmo

[xanadu]

Translated from reliable German source...

Today, unfortunately it experienced that it comes with the current beta again to chip problems! A further delay is thus unfortunately again announced!


(original German text)

habe heut leider erfahren, dass es bei den aktuellen Betas wieder zu Chip-Problemen kommt!

Eine weitere Verzögerung ist somit leider wieder angesagt!

[nixus]

Have ordered one here yesterday:
htxp://www.dworld.at/product_info.php?info=p242_Dreamb ox-DM-8000-S.html
Promise to deliver in 2 weeks. Will see.
Cheers

[hda5]

Please can you read the rules fellas.

https://www.satpimps.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=82


Links
No links are to be posted to other commercial satellite retailers other than our site sponsors.
No http links to any other sites.
No http links to file sites or upload centers.
[we have no way of knowing if files on other sites are safe for our members]
No http links to items listed on auction sites
No http links of any variety to be displayed in signatures or profiles.

Advertising
No personal adverts or dealer adverts what so ever.

[nixus]

Done

[borderfox]

Will be interesting to see what happens as that company promises a 2 week delivery time! Even if it is available, I don;t think I could opt in at this stage as its simply too expensive at €800.
Maybe I'd bite at <€600 - wonder how long more it would take to get its pric dow??

[spud]

Got this email yesterday

I'm sorry but currently we cannot tell you a concrete release-date for the DM 8000.

As soon as the release-date is known we will publicize it on our homepage ***.dream-multimedia-tv.de under the column „news “.

Thank you for your understanding!

Mit freundlichem Gruß, Best Regards

Nils Weiberg

2 weeks,no chance.

[xanadu]

2 weeks,no chance.

2 years? Maybe... :eek:

[nixus]

Yep.... looks they just kidding..
Got e-mail from them, that they're awaiting dispatch from DMM.
At least first in, first out
Cheers

[xanadu]

that they're awaiting dispatch from DMM.
At least first in, first out
Cheers


2009 then. :D

[vinny0048]

2009 then. :D

2009?? Don't hold your breath. There's more chance of seeing Technomate release a HD Linux receiver.

[dave3dg]

As DVI (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html#) and HDMI connections become more and more widely used, we are often asked: which is better, DVI (or HDMI) or component video? The answer, as it happens, is not cut-and-dried.

First, to clear away one element that can be confusing: DVI and HDMI are exactly the same as one another, image-quality-wise. The principal differences are that HDMI carries audio as well as video (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html#), and uses a different type of connector, but both use the same encoding scheme, and that's why a DVI source can be connected to an HDMI monitor, or vice versa, with a DVI/HDMI cable, with no intervening converter box.

The upshot of this article--in case you're not inclined to read all the details--is that it's very hard to predict whether a digital (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html#) DVI or HDMI connection will produce a better or worse image than an analog component video connection. There will often be significant differences between the digital and the analog signals, but those differences are not inherent in the connection type and instead depend upon the characteristics of the source device (e.g., your DVD player) and the display device (e.g., your TV set). Why that is, however, requires a bit more discussion.

What are DVI, HDMI and Component Video?

DVI/HDMI and Component Video are all video standards which support a variety of resolutions, but which deliver the signal from the source to the display in very different ways. The principal important difference is that DVI/HDMI deliver the signal in a digital format, much the same way that a file is delivered from one computer to another along a network (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html#), while Component Video is an analog format, delivering the signal not as a bitstream, but as a set of continuously varying voltages representing (albeit indirectly, as we'll get to in a moment) the red, green and blue components of the signal.

Both DVI/HDMI and Component Video deliver signals as discrete red, green, and blue color components, together with sync information which allows the display to determine when a new line, or a new frame, begins. The DVI/HDMI standard delivers these along three data channels in a format called T.M.D.S., which stands for "Transmission Minimized Differential Signaling." Big words aside, the T.M.D.S. format basically involves a blue channel to which horizontal and vertical sync are added, and separate green and red channels.

Component Video is delivered, similarly, with the color information split up three ways. However, component video uses a "color-difference" type signal, which consists of Luminance (the "Y", or "green," channel, representing the total brightness of the image), Red Minus Luminance (the "Pr," or "Red," channel), and Blue Minus Luminance (the "Pb," or "Blue," channel). The sync pulses for both horizontal and vertical are delivered on the Y channel. The display calculates the values of red, green and blue from the Y, Pb, and Pr signals.

Both signal types, then, are fundamentally quite similar; they break up the image in similar ways, and deliver the same type of information to the display, albeit in different forms. How they differ, as we'll see, will depend to a great extent upon the particular characteristics of the source and display devices, and can depend upon cabling as well.

Isn't Digital Just Better?

It is often supposed by writers on this subject that "digital is better." Digital signal transfer, it is assumed, is error-free, while analog signals are always subject to some amount of degradation and information loss. There is an element of truth to this argument, but it tends to fly in the face of real-world considerations. First, there is no reason why any perceptible degradation of an analog component video signal should occur even over rather substantial distances; the maximum runs in home theater installations do not present a challenge for analog cabling built to professional standards. Second, it is a flawed assumption to suppose that digital signal handling is always error-free. DVI and HDMI signals aren't subject to error correction; once information is lost, it's lost for good. That is not a consideration with well-made cable over short distances, but can easily become a factor at distance.

So What Does Determine Image Quality?

Video doesn't just translate directly from source material to displays, for a variety of reasons. Very few displays operate at the native resolutions of common source material, so when you're viewing material in 480p, 720p, or 1080i, there is, of necessity, some scaling going on. Meanwhile, the signals representing colors have to be accurately rendered, which is dependent on black level and "delta," the relationship between signal level and actual as-rendered color level. Original signal formats don't correspond well to display hardware; for example, DVD recordings have 480 lines, but non-square pixels. What all of this means is that there is signal processing to go on along the signal chain.

The argument often made for the DVI or HDMI signal formats is the "pure digital" argument--that by taking a digital recording, such as a DVD or a digital satellite signal, and rendering it straight into digital form as a DVI or HDMI signal, and then delivering that digital signal straight to the display, there is a sort of a perfect no-loss-and-no-alteration-of-information signal chain. If the display itself is a native digital display (e.g. an LCD or Plasma display), the argument goes, the signal never has to undergo digital-to-analog conversion and therefore is less altered along the way.

That might be true, were it not for the fact that digital signals are encoded in different ways and have to be converted, and that these signals have to be scaled and processed to be displayed. Consequently, there are always conversions going on, and these conversions aren't always easy going. "Digital to digital" conversion is no more a guarantee of signal quality than "digital to analog," and in practice may be substantially worse. Whether it's better or worse will depend upon the circuitry involved--and that is something which isn't usually practical to figure out. As a general rule, with consumer equipment, one simply doesn't know how signals are processed, and one doesn't know how that processing varies by input. Analog and digital inputs must either be scaled through separate circuits, or one must be converted to the other to use the same scaler. How is that done? In general, you won't find an answer to that anywhere in your instruction manual, and even if you did, it'd be hard to judge which is the better scaler without viewing the actual video output. It's fair to say, in general, that even in very high-end consumer gear, the quality of circuits for signal processing and scaling is quite variable.

Additionally, it's not uncommon to find that the display characteristics of different inputs have been set up differently. Black level, for example, may vary considerably from the digital to the analog inputs, and depending on how sophisticated your setup options on your display are, that may not be an easy thing to recalibrate.

The Role of Cable and Connection Quality

Cable quality, in general, should not be a significant factor in the DVI/HDMI versus Component Video comparison, as long as the cables in question are of high quality. There are, however, ways in which cable quality issues can come into play.

Analog component video is an extremely robust signal type; we have had our customers run analog component, without any need for boosters, relays or other special equipment, up to 200 feet without any signal quality issues at all. However, at long lengths, cable quality can be a consideration--in particular, impedance needs to be strictly controlled to a tight tolerance (ideally, 75 +/- 1.5 ohms) to prevent problems with signal reflection which can cause ghosting or ringing.

DVI and HDMI, unfortunately, are not so robust. The problem here is the same as the virtue of analog component: tight control over impedance. When the professional video industry went to digital signals, it settled upon a standard--SDI, serial digital video--which was designed to be run in coaxial cables, where impedance can be controlled very tightly, and consequently, uncompressed, full-blown HD (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html#) signals can be run hundreds of feet with no loss of information in SDI. For reasons known only to the designers of the DVI and HDMI standards, this very sound design principle was ignored; instead of coaxial cable, the DVI and HDMI signals are run balanced, through twisted-pair cable. The best twisted pair cables control impedance to about +/- 10%. When a digital signal is run through a cable, the edges of the bits (represented by sudden transitions in voltage) round off, and the rounding increases dramatically with distance. Meanwhile, poor control over impedance results in signal reflections--portions of the signal bounce off of the display end of the line, propagate back down the cable, and return, interfering with later information in the same bitstream. At some point, the data become unrecoverable, and with no error correction available, there's no way to restore the lost information.

DVI and HDMI connections, for this reason, are subject to the "digital cliff" phenomenon. Up to some length, a DVI or HDMI cable will perform just fine; the rounding and reflections will not compromise the ability of the display device to reconstruct the original bitstream, and no information will be lost. As we make the cable longer and longer, the difficulty of reconstructing the bitstream increases. At some point, unrecoverable bit errors start to occur; these are colloquially described in the home theater community as "sparklies," because the bit errors manifest themselves as pixel dropouts which make the image sparkle. If we make the cable just a bit longer, so much information is lost that the display becomes unable to reconstitute enough information to even render an image; the bitstream has fallen off the digital cliff, so called because of the abruptness of the failure. A cable design that works perfectly at 20 feet may get "sparkly" at 25, and stop working entirely at 30.

In practice, it's very hard to say when a DVI or HDMI signal will fail. We have found well-made DVI cables to be quite reliable up to 50 feet, but HDMI cable, with its smaller profile, is a bit more of a puzzle. Because the ability to reconstitute the bitstream varies depending on the quality of the circuitry in the source and display devices, it's not uncommon for a cable to work fine at 30, 40, or 50 feet on one source/display combination, and not work at all on another.

The Upshot: It Depends

So, which is better, DVI or component? HDMI or component? The answer--*****isfying, perhaps, but true--is that it depends. It depends upon your source and display devices, and there's no good way, in principle, to say in advance whether the digital or the analog connection will render a better picture. You may even find, say, that your DVD player looks better through its DVI or HDMI output, while your satellite or cable box looks better through its component output, on the same display. In this case, there's no real substitute for simply plugging it in and giving it a try both ways.

Usefull?

dave3dg

[xanadu]

Usefull?

Not to anyone expecting a DM8000 in 2 weeks. :D

[Hamrag1]

Very useful - Thanks very much dave for that comprehensive explanation
I have been asked the same question a number of times, but could never give a satisfactory answer. One further small question if you don't mind - Does the HDMI cable also have a low speed 'backward' channel ?

Hamrag1

[pipino]

i think ABcom IPBOX 9000 will win the race this time as its expected to be out next week

[borderfox]

i think ABcom IPBOX 9000 will win the race this time as its expected to be out next week
Whats the advantages/disadvantages of this box by comparison? Is it likely to be well supported in terms of software/plugins??
One good thing seems to be a more realistic price.

[A]

ABcom Ipbox 9000 HDTV

Features AB IPBox 9000HD Black / HDTV 2CI HDMI with HDCP DVB-S compliant

DVB-S compliant DVB-S2, DVB-T, DVB-C supported
Smart tuner supported(Plug & Play)
MPEG-2 MP@HL Video Decoder
MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 HP@L4 Video Decoder
DIVX® supported WMV(VC1),
WMA/WMA-pro Decoder
Dolby AC3 downmix decoder
HDMI with HDCP supported
Multi-format Audio Decoder
High Definition and Standard Definition
DVB Common Interface (2 slots) supported
Format resolution: 1080i, 720p, 576p
USB 2.0(Host)
supported USB 1.0(Client) supported

Network Interface Supported( high speed Ethernet)
VFD Display : Capability for display of various information
SCPC and MCPC receivable from C/Ku-band satellites
Channel list editing
Favorite channel list editing
True-color On-Screen Display (OSD)
Full Picture In Graphic (PIG) function
Electronic Program Guide (EPG) for on screen channel information
Subtitle & Teletext supported
Parental lock facility by channel and program event
Added hardware parts for future use.
S-ATA cable and 3.5 HDD cradle(bracket)
2 x mini PCI socket for several kinds of tuner
2 x smartcard reader
IPTV function to be added


High Definition

HDTV stands for High Definition Television the high-resolution television of the future (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 and MPEG2).

MPEG4/H.264 is an improved compression process for digital television and HDTV, a successor of MPEG2.
1080i and 720p HDTV video formats: p stands for progressive and i for interlaced images.

Standard Definition
**** stands for Standard Definition Television, which is the basic PAL signal.

The AB IPBox 9000HD uses the latest image enhancement technology to make even **** programs appear sharper than ever, using a HDMI or YUV, RGB, S-video output.

Dolby Digital Sound
The AB IPBox 9000HD comes equipped with an optical digital output for extremely realistic spatial sound.

Technical details:

CPU Type 266MHz ST40-202 32bit RISC CPU
Data/Instruction Cache 32KB/16KB
Satellite QPSK Tuner(DVB-S) Input Connector IEC 169-24 Female(F-type)
Input Signal Level -65 to -25dBm
Frequency Range 950MHz to 2150MHz
LNB Control Vertical 13V(400mA Max)
Horizontal 18V(400mA Max)
Waveform QPSK(C/KU band compatible)
22KHz Tone Frequency 22±4KHz
Amplitude 0.6±0.2V
Symbol Rate QPSK( up to 45MS/s)
DiSEqC Control Version 1.0/1.1/1.2/USALS Compatible
Satellite 8PSK Tuner(DVB-S2) Input Connector IEC 169-24 Female(F-type)
Input Signal Level -65 to -25dBm
Frequency Range 950MHz to 2150MHz
LNB Control Vertical 13V(400mA Max)
Horizontal 18V(400mA Max)
Waveform QPSK, 8PSK(C/KU band compatible)
22KHz Tone Frequency 22±4KHz
Amplitude 0.6±0.2V
Symbol Rate QPSK( up to 45MS/s), DVB-S2 :QPSK(up to 36MS/S), 8PSK(up to 30MS/s)
DiSEqC Control Version 1.0/1.1/1.2/USALS Compatible
Terrestrial OFDM Tuner Input Connector IEC169-2 female
Loop through Connector IEC169-2 male
Frequency Range 50MHz to 870MHz
Loop through Out Impedance 75 ohms nominal
Band Width 7/8 MHz
Carrier Mode 2k & 8k hierachical/non-hierachical mode
Constellation Auto(QPSK, 16/64 QAM)
Mode Rate Auto(1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 5/6 and 7/8)
Guard Interval Auto(1/4, 1/8, 1/16 and 1/32)
Cable QAM Tuner Input Connector IEC169-2 female
Loop through Connector IEC169-2 male
Frequency Range 47MHz to 862MHz
Loop through Out Impedance 75 ohms nominal
IF Bandwidth 8MHz
QAM mode 16, 32, 64,128,256QAM
Symbol rate 0.87Mbaud~7Mbaud Max.
MPEG Transport Stream & A/V Decoding Input Stream ISO/IEC 13818-2 Specification and VC1 Microsoft video format main/advanced profiles@HL(WMV-9), <mailto:> H.264
Profile & Level MPEG-2 MP@ML, <mailto:> MP@HL, <mailto:> MPEG4 AP@HL/H.264 <mailto:> level 4.1, VC1(WMV9)
Input TS Data Rate 138Mbit/S max.
Aspect Ratio 4:3, 16:9 with pan/scan vector
Video Resolution 720 x 576(PAL), 720 x 480(NTSC), 1080i, 720P, 480i, 480P
Audio Decoding MPEG-1 Audio Layer 1,2, Musicam
Audio Mode Stereo, Dual Channel, Joint Stereo, Mono
Sample Rate 32, 44.1, and 48KHz
Memory Flash Memory 16MB
DDR SDRAM 160MB (32MB+128MB)
Storage & Rear connector HDD Serial ATA 80/120/160/200GB and over (User Selectable)
Digital interface for HDTV HDMI with HDCP
SCART I/F VCR & TV(2 Ports)
CVBS & Audio R/L Out RCA(3 Ports)
S-video Din
Component Out(YPbPr) RCA(3 Ports)
Digital Audio S/PDIF via Optical
Data In/Out USB Host Interface USB A-Type Female (USB 2.0)
USB Device Interface USB B-Type Female (USB 1.0)
RS232C 9 Pin D-Sub
Network Ethernet RJ-45( 100BT )
Conditional Access Common Interface 2 PCMCIA-Cards Slots
Smartcard Interface 2 Slots
Front Display VFD Vacuum Fluorescent Display as Alpha numeric style
Power Supply Input Voltage AC110-245V, 50/60Hz
Type Linear PWM
Power Consumption 50W
Protection - Separate Internal Fuse and Chassis

[brain]

Hi All
I seem to have got the discussion going here - thanks for all that wonderful spec A - How do we mod it? Is it Linux ? - Im really bad at trying to understand jargon - i just want something a ssimple as a dreambox!!!!!!!!!! LOL - Cheers - Brain

[bobi]

hahahhaha Brain ,

one thing is for sure , it is Linux

now if is it as easy as DB that will be seen when it comes out
luckely i have mine coming , will test this baby and see what can do

cheers

bobi

[brain]

Hi Bobi
Thanks for that - how long is the waiting list then and what supplier? Im really rather fond of my DB though especially since Ive just got it on line - only took 18 months to ponder over and 10' to be operating smoothly - who said it was difficult!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL - Brain

[Eugenie]

Hi all.

The main rival to the current Dreambox models has been the Relook400s. The follow up to this model was once labeled 510s...this has now changed and it will now be named 'CubeRevo'.

Now, IPbox 9000/900 is simply another labeling of (Relook)CubeRevo/Cuberevo light, thus making IPbox already familiar to anyone who is familiar with Relook and the announced Cuberevo line. The company behind them all is DGstation in Korea. Same software basically applies for all brand names with same hardware.

The Ipbox 9000/CubeRevo should be the main rival to DB8000.

By the way...a heads up for the fact that Armas (producer of Tripple Dragon DBS3000) are working hard on a HD receiver. When we&#180;ll see it on the market is written in the stars!

Eugenie

[bobi]

well there are many HD RECEIVERS on the marked , but as always there is diferent
choises to be made by the buyers , some like linux and the trooble with it
some like to have just a receiver to see tv , and are happy

i my self like many others like the chanllange to mess with things
i to have been very faithfull to dreambox , but seems like they are loosing the battle
we have katherine , reelbox , relook/CubeRevo and ABIP BOX , that are fors sure
to be on marked very soon

the abip box will be lunched at the end off this month, and there are dealers in uk
that will have this receiver as soon as is for sale to the masses,

at same time words from manufacrures have it that will be runing enigma
wich is good in some way , but lets hoppe they do deliver an stabke software

@ Brain , i cannot tell you for sure mate , but all i can say is that will be here veru soon
if you are from uk there is dealer for uk that has abipbox ,
otherwise send them an e-mail and im very sure they will answer you at lates 1 day

cheers

bobi

[norman11]

well there are many HD RECEIVERS on the marked , but as always there is diferent
choises to be made by the buyers , some like linux and the trooble with it
some like to have just a receiver to see tv , and are happy

i my self like many others like the chanllange to mess with things
i to have been very faithfull to dreambox , but seems like they are loosing the battle
we have katherine , reelbox , relook/CubeRevo and ABIP BOX , that are fors sure
to be on marked very soon

the abip box will be lunched at the end off this month, and there are dealers in uk
that will have this receiver as soon as is for sale to the masses,

at same time words from manufacrures have it that will be runing enigma
wich is good in some way , but lets hoppe they do deliver an stabke software

@ Brain , i cannot tell you for sure mate , but all i can say is that will be here veru soon
if you are from uk there is dealer for uk that has abipbox ,
otherwise send them an e-mail and im very sure they will answer you at lates 1 day

cheers

bobi
HiYa bobi....it looks good... and if you say there is a dealer in the UK...could you give me a clue as to how to contact them:D

[bobi]

@ norman11

is no need yet mate , as he has not gott it yet
i know as im talking to him , at same time i cannot bracke the rules off the forum

please send me pm and i will se what i can do

cheers

bobi

[gasth404]

ABcom Ipbox 9000 HDTV

Features AB IPBox 9000HD Black / HDTV 2CI HDMI with HDCP DVB-S compliant

DVB-S compliant DVB-S2, DVB-T, DVB-C supported
Smart tuner supported(Plug & Play)
...

Looks very interesting. What means ...DVB-T, DVB-C supported? Can I add terrastial tuner and make it combi or it is allready:confused:

[Keano]

Looks very interesting. What means ...DVB-T, DVB-C supported? Can I add terrastial tuner and make it combi or it is allready:confused:

It has two plug and play tuner slots.

T = aerial

C = cable

Bit like the db7025

[norman11]

Thanks M8'y you have PM

[norman11]

Of interest....just had this back from the UK sales manager of European Disributers-

IPBo***00 HD is going to be available by the end of november/ beginning of december

So has it got a touch of the jolly old DM8000 problems.....we will have to see:cool: