What could be the problem with my new dish setup?

[bonovox]

Ok, had a day installing new dish and motor, 90cm mesh dish and diseqc h-h motor. After setting up the dish I can't get many satellites so something awry with the elevation etc. What is more likely the reason that the satellite is not tracking the arc properly? 1 west seems spot on, 8 west seems also spot on and 30west I get a signal as well but weaker than it should be. I can't get any signal on 5east, 7east or 16east and 28east(although closer to tree is some reason) for this sat) and I have weak signals on 19east and 13east. On my older dish and lnb I picked up everything from 28east to 30west. On my old setup I had a 90% signal on taquilla and 85% on the opposite polarity. On the new setup I have 69% on taquilla but a better signal on the opposite polarity, around 81%. That doesn't add up. If its out on one polarity surely it should be weaker as well on the other. So with that whats more likely to be the cause. Do I go back to 1 west and alter the dish elevation or is there something I'm missing?:confused:

[echelon]

seems to me its not tracking the arc properly

you need to work out what your latitude is and set the motor to that

work out your longitude to and put that with the latitude into usals , so the motor moves to the correct place on the arc

and you also need to worlk out the dish elevation as well , from the formula 60 - lat and take away from the manufacturers details

ps:- its the wrong time of year for doing this , I did mine last august on a sunny day :)

[bonovox]

Thanks for the tips. The winds of last week and my old dish flying along the backyard makes the choice of installation time out of my hands unfortunately. Had to be now.:D

[r_johns66]

Check that your wall mount is absolutely vertical. I had similar problems many, many years ago, I checked the pole and it was slightly out of true, made some small adjustments, problem disappeared.

Regards
R

[drahcirk]

yes make sure ur pole is upright,.

[bonovox]

Yeah mount is vertical cos its the mount my old dish was on.

[dirtydogs]

try doing a search on goole images with search words¨tuning dish to arc¨. There is a useful image (first up) that may help you understand where the problem may be.

dickie

[bgsats]

Presume your new dish is at least the same size as the old one? What is your longitude? If you're more or less 1 degree West of Greenwich, it's fine to use Thor as the centre of the arc - but if you're well away from that longitude, another sat will be better. Have you checked whether your dish face is distorted? It's a common problem, especially with mesh dishes.

[bonovox]

Thanks for the tips. Yeah something still wrong, been trying to fine tune the elevation and have a good signal now on 28east, 19east, 13east and have some signal on 7east 5east and 1 west but from 1 west it now disappears and get nothing from 30west. Nothing at all coming in from 16east which is important as I have a digit alb card. This one satellite is strange as my previous dish picked it up with a strong 80% signal and now nothing. I may move the dish to another position and see if its the trees that are interfering.

[bgsats]

Have you altered the elevation on the motor itself? Hopefully not! Is the new dish aligned correctly (E/W) on the motor? That is, centre of the bracket on the back of the dish aligned accurately with the centre mark on the stub of the motor.

[bonovox]

I haven't altered the elevation on the motor. Been trying to alter the dish by moving up and down to get the best signal. Right I have another question. Does a diseq motor work in the same principles as a normal powered motor which is what I had before. I mean does it track the arc in much the same way. You mention about the dish being exactly central and lined up with the centre mark on the stub of the motor. Well when I installed it I moved the whole dish and motor to 1 west and got BBC world. Then tightened up and moved the dish with the receiver to get the best signal. I had to move the dish with the receiver a few steps to get the best signal. Then altered the elevation of the dish to get the best signal I could on 1 west before checking the other sats. Does the dish and motor need to be pointing exactly to due south before you start and if this is a few degrees out would this affect the whole thing? I may need to rethink the whole setup.

[Detlef]

A simple check is that your dish should be pointing at the maximum up angle when it is on 1W (assuming a UK location).


. . . and if this is a few degrees out would this affect the whole thing? Yes, that is the usual problem with optimising the tracking arc.

[echelon]

I think you are totally confused about it all , and no a diseqc motor isnt the same as a powered motor using an actuator

1) read my installation thread on the subject

2) find out the offset of your dish and set the dish elevation to that setting

3) set the latitude on your motor to your latitude

4) make sure the dish is centred on the actual motor stub as mentioned earlier

5) make sure the pole is vertical

[bgsats]

"I haven't altered the elevation on the motor" .... "Does a diseq motor work in the same principles as a normal powered motor which is what I had before"
Not sure how these statements tie in! The elevation on the motor should be equal to your latitude on a DiseqC motor. Set it to that figure, and don't alter it - that's if you're installing a replacement motor. If the motor was already installed, and working well, leave that part of the setup just as it was. Before you do any other adjustment, you must make sure the centre of the bracket on the back of the dish is aligned with the mark on the stub of the motor. Otherwise, when the motor is pointing South, the dish will be pointing somewhere else. Thor is not good enough for due South for the whole of the UK - check your longitude. For example, if you're 4 degrees West of Greenwich, and can receive Amos, use that. Once you've done that, do exactly as you described, moving the whole assembly until you get a signal from Thor or whatever sat. you need to use. Best to check your pole again before you start. Use a short spirit level, checking all the way round the pole (level upright!) Any error, however slight, needs to be corrected. It will save you hours later!

[bgsats]

Beat me to it, Echelon! The only thing I would add, it isn't always possible to find out the offset angle of a particular dish. Once you have the latitude setting (on the side of the motor) set correctly, then finding your sat (Thor or whatever) is exactly like aligning a fixed dish - if you can't find a signal, alter the dish elevation until you can!

[bonovox]

Beat me to it, Echelon! The only thing I would add, it isn't always possible to find out the offset angle of a particular dish. Once you have the latitude setting (on the side of the motor) set correctly, then finding your sat (Thor or whatever) is exactly like aligning a fixed dish - if you can't find a signal, alter the dish elevation until you can!

Thanks for the answers. Yep I have no idea what the offset angle of this new dish is. It is not listed anywhere, either on the site where I bought it and there is no do***entation with it only the assembly instructions. It is a 90cm ISS mesh dish. I am at -0.0079 longitude and so 1 west is nearly due south. So can I presume that if I have the latitude setting on the side of the motor set to 53.36 (my latitude) and I then find 1 west and alter elevation to the best reception then all the other sats should fall into place? Thats pretty much how I did it. I may change the mount and move it further along the wall so I can take the trees totally out of the equation (i'm pretty sure its clearing the trees). I mean if I received 16east before (an 80% signal) with a 1m dish then I'm pretty certain I would get some signal with a 90cm dish especially after reading on here that for my area an 80cm dish can receive this satellite. There should surely be some sort of signal from this satellite with a 90cm dish. Oh yeah also my old LNB was 8-9 years old and I'm not sure of what kind of db rating, if I remember correctly something like 1.2 and the new one is a Smart Titanium 0.2db so surely with newer equipment it would make up for 10cm difference in dish size.

[echelon]

sounds a good plan to me , and should be fine on dish size and on lnb etc

if you can use usals , use it on your box settings and set the thor as your reference , and it will take the motor to the correct place for thor on your diseqc motor

[bgsats]

If you're not tracking the arc after doing that, then either your pole isn't straight, or the dish isn't aligned centrally on the motor (easy to be a bit out there). I shouldn't be inclined to move to another position if all was OK very recently. On 16 East it's critical to adjust the LNB skew, also to move the LNB in/out to adjust the focal length. You can't move it much, but it helps. When on 16E also check you're looking at a transponder which is actually in use!

[bonovox]

Just another question. I have worked out elevation settings using latitude from the link below but my dish looks nothing like the picture they give. Should it be at that angle? Take a look, maybe a stupid question.:rolleyes:

_http://www.satlex.us/en/azel_calc-params.html?satlo=-1.0&user_satlo=&user_satlo_dir=E&location=&la=53.36&lo=-0.0079&country_code=uk&diam_w=90&diam_h=90

[r_johns66]

Which motor are you using? Do you have a scale on the motor bracket that fits to the wall mount, one side may read Elevation and the other Declination.

For your location set the Elevation Angle of the motor on this bracket to 37, the corresponding declination angle should then be 7.6. Now go to the dish bracket and set this as close to 22.4 as possible and that should sort you out. As has been stated previously make sure the dish is central on the motor stub.

HTH
R

[bgsats]

I think we're making things unduly complicated. If the motor is a DiseqC as stated in the first post, then there's normally only one scale - latitude, and it has been set correctly. Cncentrate on making sure the pole is dead straight, and the dish set centrally on the motor. Then find Thor, more or less as you would with a fixed dish. The only difference is you turn the whole assembly, motor and dish together, by hand, until you get a signal. If there's no signal, alter the dish elevation only,until you get one. When the signal is peaked, everything is set as it should be. No calculations,no wondering whether it's right, job done!

[bonovox]

Ok m8's gonna give that a go. Gonna make sure motor elevation is set right and the dish set centrally on the motor then go from there.

[Gone_Fishing]

Theres an install video for a DiSEqC motor below :cool:

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBErZGBb2Fo


TNT

[andem]

go to 1w and bring the dish down a bit, not the elevation the dish.:)

[bgsats]

"bring the dish down a bit" .......Can you explain why he would need to do that?

[bonovox]

Theres an install video for a DiSEqC motor below :cool:

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBErZGBb2Fo


TNT

Great video thanks.

[bonovox]

Been playing with the dish setup again and its now tracking the arc better. The motor elevation had altered to between 55 and 56 when it should have been 53.4. The dish elevation still needs tweaking as I can't pull in Digit Alb although I do have a signal off the DCS package channels so I'm getting closer. I also think my LNB is skewed wrong so I'm gonna sort that out. Its just a little off but not much. Shall have another go tomorrow. Also on 1west is the Digi Film channels a strong signal? I can get it but its low and was gonna alter the dish for the absolute peak on this channel.

[bgsats]

The Digi+ package seems to be quite sensitive to things "not being quite right", same for Digitalb. I should peak the dish elevation on 16E, then adjust the skew and focal length, then just to be sure, check the dish elevation again.

[bonovox]

The Digi+ package seems to be quite sensitive to things "not being quite right", same for Digitalb. I should peak the dish elevation on 16E, then adjust the skew and focal length, then just to be sure, check the dish elevation again.

Yep I'll give it a go tomorrow. Didn't get chance today. I gotta feeling your right about digit alb being particularly sensitive. Also the skew on my Lnb is definetly miles out cos the transponder that the digit alb sports channels was on was the strongest signal I could pick up with the old dish. I used to get 83-85% on the super sports channels and now I get absolutely nothing.

[bgsats]

Can't remember - are you using the same LNB?

[Gone_Fishing]

I get around 78 - 80% on Digi TV on 1W on a 1.1m dish which hasn't been aligned for years :)


TNT

[echelon]

Been playing with the dish setup again and its now tracking the arc better. The motor elevation had altered to between 55 and 56 when it should have been 53.4. The dish elevation still needs tweaking as I can't pull in Digit Alb although I do have a signal off the DCS package channels so I'm getting closer. I also think my LNB is skewed wrong so I'm gonna sort that out. Its just a little off but not much. Shall have another go tomorrow. Also on 1west is the Digi Film channels a strong signal? I can get it but its low and was gonna alter the dish for the absolute peak on this channel.

its a very strong signal on my 1.1m triax dish with 0.2db Inverto lnb

[bonovox]

Can't remember - are you using the same LNB?


No a different LNB. My old LNB was 8-9 years old and so we are talking 1.2 - 1.5 db or something like that and nowhere near as "good" as the 0.2 Smart LNB I am now using.

[bgsats]

Your new LNB wouldn't be better if it happened to be faulty. Not that likely, but for the time it takes to swap back, you could easily find out.

[bonovox]

Yeah that might be an idea to try that. I'll try to set the new lnb up properly, i think its totally skewed the wrong way and then if that fails I might stick on the old lnb to see what thats like. Cheers.

[echelon]

the lnb normally has the cable pointing straight down when its on 1 west

ie:- no skew on 1 west

[bonovox]

Yep I'm gonna change it tomorrow. I'll let u know how I get on. Should cure the problems with 16 east hopefully.

[bonovox]

Had another go at picking up Digit Alb 16east and no joy. Its quite amazing really cos everything else and I mean everything else is now pretty much perfect. I now put it down to the green tree thats just in front. My old system was on a motor and that meant it was further from the tree and so picked digit alb up perfectly. My new diseq motor has moved the dish closer to the tree and so it must be that which is making the difference. What I mean is the old motor was mounted upways level with the wall mount and this is mounted downways and brings the dish further out from the mount. I have one package on 16east and that is the Max Tv package on 11513 V. Can anyone tell me if this is the strongest signal on this satellite. I'll probably need to move the dish further down the wall anyway when the spring comes and this will mean I won't have to keep trimming next doors trees when they start to flower again. I think thats the plan, shall have to do without digit alb for a few weeks. When I mean everything else is coming in fine for example 5east and the Viasat package is coming in great and digiturk and bfbs at 7 east both of which are on the same powered satellites if not weaker than 16east. Just watching 23east as well with a very good signal. Really is baffling. Oh well bloody trees. Thanks for all the advice.

[bonovox]

Just an update on my installation problems. I have a 60cm fixed dish that was set on 30west and decided to give this a try on 16east. To my surprise I am now watching the digit alb channels for the first time since my other dish came down at the end of January. Obviously there will be picture break-up when its raining but to get a signal lock on all channels is a real bonus especially as the dish was set on 30west where there has been nothing available since TV Cabo and Digital + went nagra3. Anyway this all means that I am now relocating my main dish further along the wall and above the tree line which has been the trouble with 16east (wasn't any trouble before on my other main dish, must be cos the new dish is closer to the tree). Mounts up and should be complete this weekend. Lovely jubbly!:D

[bonovox]

Well this is driving me up the wall. I have relocated my 90cm mesh dish to another location away from trees thinking that this would cure the digit alb problem. But its exactly the same as on the other mount. I can get all satellites BUT 16east. I have even tried altering the dish elevation when it is pointing at 16east but this makes no difference. I can NOT get a fix on digit alb. This is ridiculous because 5 foot along the same wall I have a 60cm mesh dish fixed at 16east and I can get the digit alb channels in fine weather but on my 90cm mesh dish nothing. I have tried another LNB with the same result. What am I doing wrong? I was thinking if I was to move the whole dish assembly around to 16 east as the starting point instead of 1 west would that be any good cos thats the only thing I can of doing now as I have run out of ideas. I have tried 2 LNB's, an MTI Blue Line and a Smart Titanium both 0.2db. On my old 1metre dish I had none of these problems when I installed that system. Took me about an hour. This is going on for about 3 months!

[chelseaboy]

i fitted a fixed dish on 16 degree and it had to be spot on, when i moved the dish even a couple of mm the signal would drop.


Have you tried setting it with a sat metre just on 16 degree?

Just use a sat metre and get the signal as high as you can on 16 degree, then hopefully when it follows the arc you will still be able to get the other satellites.

I get everything on my motorised dish which is 1 metre, but the signal for 16 degree is very weak, im not that bothered as i havnt got a digitalb card, but i have tried one and i had problems with the signal.

But down the road where i fitted the fixed dish which is a mesh 80cm the signal is really good.

chelseaboy

[bonovox]

I think I might just try to get the best signal I can on digit alb by moving the whole dish and motor to point at 16east. Its the only thing left to try. I use my sat receiver as a meter guide (on a tiny lcd tv)as I have no proper sat meter. Its just driving me mad as I had no problems with my old solid 1m dish setup that was blown off the wall in January. That setup was 10 years old, even the LNB and it still got a very good signal on digit alb and I set it up myself. The only difference being that was on a h to h motor and this is a disequ thingy.

[Skytel]

do as you suggest, send the motor to 16e align it to that,as it is a weaker sat you may find your other sats will come in stronger as well if you are using usals to drive the motor,I know this is not the way to usually but if you cant get it by aligning to 1w it wont hurt as the other sats are stronger signals.
also just because another dish gets 16e ok does not mean this one will as dish quality varies alot,a good smaller dish can pick a signal where a larger not so good dish cannot sometimes

[bonovox]

Looks like your absolutely right. Tried to align the dish on digit alb by moving the motor stub and dish manually and couldn't get any kind of signal from 16east. I am now convinced that the 90cm mesh dish is being out performed by a 60cm mesh. On all other satellites the signal is fine. 16east where the signal is normally weaker I can only pick up a couple of frequencies, Max TV which seems to be the strongest signal. So I have learned my lesson from all this pratting about. If you want a motorised system NEVER buy a mesh dish. I am now looking at getting a 90cm solid dish which hopefully should do the trick. Any suggestions? I thought a 90cm Gilbertini?

[chelseaboy]

Looks like your absolutely right. Tried to align the dish on digit alb by moving the motor stub and dish manually and couldn't get any kind of signal from 16east. I am now convinced that the 90cm mesh dish is being out performed by a 60cm mesh. On all other satellites the signal is fine. 16east where the signal is normally weaker I can only pick up a couple of frequencies, Max TV which seems to be the strongest signal. So I have learned my lesson from all this pratting about. If you want a motorised system NEVER buy a mesh dish. I am now looking at getting a 90cm solid dish which hopefully should do the trick. Any suggestions? I thought a 90cm Gilbertini?

how about the triax 1.1metre, they look okay.

chelseaboy

[bonovox]

Thats too big m8. I want a 90cm dish max. It should be fine for digit alb I would have thought.

[chelseaboy]

how about an 88cm triax?

chelseaboy

[Skytel]

there is a great 85cm dish for digitalb out, but i dont think i can mention it

[bonovox]

Yeah I know the one your on about and its not a round dish, kind of a queer shape. My question about it is whats it like as a motorised dish? Any good? Also thought about a triax as well. Shall have to have a think as I have got to get the bugger right this time!:banghead:

[Skytel]

believe me it is a very good dish for size it is the best,it has very good feedback from people with motors but i have not motorised it myself as yet.

[bonovox]

Mmmm sounds interesting. I wanted a black dish though so thats the only gripe with it as its grey in colour, right? Definetly worth considering.

[Skytel]

it is grey with red wording across the front,i have set up plenty of dishes and if it is 90cm max its got to be this dish or the triax 88cm

[bonovox]

What kind of weight are the triax 88cm or the other dish that your talking about. I know it will be heavier than the current 90cm mesh dish but how much, will it be a lot heavier?

Also I noticed when I first got the 90cm Mesh dish some of the covering was flaking off. Would this have an adverse effect on the signal? At the time I didn't think much of it.

[Gone_Fishing]

I cant imagine the triax is very heavy I installed my 1.1 triax myself and don't remember that being heavy

_http://www.triax.co.uk/upload/satellite_dishes_w-partnership_2005_%5Buk%5D.pdf


TNT

[Skytel]

i think other dish is 4 kg stated elsewhere ,i am sure the triax 88cm is slightly heavier

[bonovox]

Hey m8 just read the thread on the other dish (other forum) and it does look very promising. Its also seems thats its lighter than expected. 4kg doesn't seem that much. Also the size is 85cm which would be a little smaller than the 90cm mesh crap I have up already. The only niggling doubt is whether it works as good when used as a motorised.

[bonovox]

Yep just replaced the crappy 90cm mesh dish with an 85cm solid dish (cant mention the maker) and all satellites coming in perfectly. Nice dish, fairly light and certainly does a good job. Think I will take the other mesh crap to the scrap yard! Bloody piece of £60 junk!:rolleyes:

[jonnygoon123]

i get between 12 west to 28 east but not 26 east not 23 east
when i go to 30 west and i use my horizon meter and i lift the dish up i have 100 signal but if i do that i lose 1 west
i changed my lattidue from 52 to anything on the motor and aswell on the dish but no succes
i dont know what to do appratiate any help:auto:

[mrbleu500]

i get between 12 west to 28 east but not 26 east not 23 east
when i go to 30 west and i use my horizon meter and i lift the dish up i have 100 signal but if i do that i lose 1 west
i changed my lattidue from 52 to anything on the motor and aswell on the dish but no succes
i dont know what to do appratiate any help:auto:

This might be of help:

http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizeimgs/adjarcsr.gif

[jonnygoon123]

thank you
i have 1 meter mesh dish techmoto2200 and fortecstar reciever.
which part of the dish is axis?how to fix it and same for declination and wich transponder in thor 5 gives me rihgt elevation
sorry if question sound stupid.
thanks again