Digit Alb HD 1920x1080.

[bonovox]

Just seen that Digit Alb are showing there HD channels at 1920x1080(or so there advert says) which is full High Definition. Is any other Satellite broadcaster showing full HD at this resolution? I know Sky were planning to but have they started yet cos they were at 1080i? Also what about the other broadcasters such as Premiere World and Canal Digital? I have noticed with some of the digit alb HD movies there is a bit of motion blur but haven't noticed this on any of the Football transmissions. Anyone else noticed this or maybe its the Kathrein sat receiver although none of the other HD channels have motion blur.

[chelseaboy]

I read somehwere earlier that digitalb are launching more hd channels, i think i will wait for the summer and get a full 12 months subscription and a new HD box.

chelseaboy

[morfsta]

Most channels are at 1920x1080i, including Sky. BBC HD is at 1440x1080i.

Full HD channels would be 1920x1080p, there are currently no channels broadcasting using this resolution only Blu-Ray and HD-DVD can be used to see it.

[pege63]

Not true some channels not many but a few use 1080P but most of the use 720P

[chelseaboy]

what satellite recievers will put out 1080p?

I know the humax, technomate 6800,technomate 6900, and the darkbox will not put out a 1080p signal as they only go up to 1080i or 720p.

Infact ive looked at all the hd recievers on goldwafers and none of the hd recievers say they can put out 1080p.

Can this been changed with a firmware update?

or are there recievers out there that will put out a 1080p sgnal?

chelseaboy

[renibacterium]

Not true some channels not many but a few use 1080P but most of the use 720P

Examples ???

[holmroad]

So does the ever elusive DMB800 not support full 1080 or 1920 x 1080 after all the hoo hah?:D

[peggle]

Just seen that Digit Alb are showing there HD channels at 1920x1080.

What this means is 1920x1080 refreshed 25 times a second in 2 interlaced fields = 1080i. Field 1 is lines 1,3,5.....1079, Field 2 is lines 2,4,6.....1080.

So called full HD is 1920x1080 refreshed 50 times a second in one field =1080p.

ALL broadcasts are 1080i, or (mainly in the USA) 720p.

1080p is only available on BluRay, HD DVD & Playstation etc. It is NOT broadcast anywhere in the world.

[Bbigfoot]

Hi bonovox,

Your confusing (1920 x 1080) as full HD, but both (1080i & 1080p) have
the same resolution (1920 x 1080).
Late last year (2007) European Broadcasters tested over the Air transmission
of (1080p) and it was a success.
Before this test it was said by most, there was not enough room to
transmit (1080p). OTA.
So if you have a (1080p) screen, it"s just a matter of wait and see.

BF...

[chelseaboy]

Hi bonovox,

Your confusing (1920 x 1080) as full HD, but both (1080i & 1080p) have
the same resolution (1920 x 1080).
Late last year (2007) European Broadcasters tested over the Air transmission
of (1080p) and it was a success.
Before this test it was said by most, there was not enough room to
transmit (1080p). OTA.
So if you have a (1080p) screen, it"s just a matter of wait and see.

BF...

yeah so what reciever did they use to view this 1080p transmission?

chelseaboy

[Gone_Fishing]

yeah so what reciever did they use to view this 1080p transmission?

chelseaboy

Any hd box can interlace 1080p so the answer is any hd receiver

Before anyone says whats being broadcast I would suggest you record a raw stream first !

BTW 1080p/25 uses the same bandwidth as 1080i/50 and bandwidth isn't an issue with MPEG4/AVC


TNT

[chelseaboy]

Any hd box can interlace 1080p so the answer is any hd receiver

Before anyone says whats being broadcast I would suggest you record a raw stream first !

BTW 1080p/25 uses the same bandwidth as 1080i/50 and bandwidth isn't an issue with MPEG4/AVC


TNT

cheers mate, thats all i wanted to know as when i get my hd box, i dont want to find out after ive got it the box wont handle 1080p.

saying that my tv aint 1080p:eek:

cheers chelseaboy

[bonovox]

Thanks for that explanation. Didn't think they was broadcasting at 1080p. As for the Sat receivers there isn't any that can output at 1080p cos there is no channels broadcasting in 1080p. Anyone else noticed the slight blurring on some digit alb movies on hd channels?

[Zyknyp]

No broadcaster uses 1080p, full stop. Anyone who says otherwise should at least post a few evidence to back it up. No Raw broadcast in the world today is 1080p.

[Zyknyp]

By the, 1080i means that every frame is made up by two fields of 1920x540, one for even lines and one for odd lines, sent in succession. So 1080i50 has 50 fields per second, respectively 25 odds and 25 evens, eventually 25 full frames. 1080p50 has 50 full frames (each frame is effectively 1920x1080) per second

[Gone_Fishing]

ok heres a 30 second clip its short because I cant be bothered to wait for a larger clip to upload, the raw stream
is 1440x1080 anamorphic which when viewed at 16.9 makes it 1920x1080 its in MPEG4 H.264

Any numpty can tell this is not interlaced that is if your pc can even play it as its a cpu killer unlike interlaced,
I've also added the same clip converted to MPEG2 I did not deinterlace it so either the fairies did or I'm lying
you could always convert the original and see for yourself

Any normal pc should be able to play the mpeg 2 version thats why I included it but you need to select 16.9 to get
the correct ratio

_http://rapidshare.de/files/39053209/BBC_HD.zip.html


TNT

[morfsta]

Not true some channels not many but a few use 1080P but most of the use 720P

Errrm, I think you'll find you're the one that's "not true".

There is currently NO commercial channel broadcasting in 1080p in Europe and the States. Not sure on somewhere like Japan.

If you are going to challenge a statement, at least come back with some practical examples of where we can find "a few using 1080P".

:confused:

[Zyknyp]

Here's the info for your Hustle.ts:
Video-PID = 2327
Parameter set position in PES packet = 6
Parameter set position in file = 400289
------------------------------------------------------------

profile_idc = 100 -----> high profile
constraint_set0_flag = 0
constraint_set1_flag = 1
constraint_set2_flag = 0
constraint_set3_flag = 0
level_idc = 40 -----> level 4.0

seq_parameter_set_id = 0

chroma_format_idc = 1
bit_depth_luma_minus8 = 0
bit_depth_chroma_minus8 = 0
lossless_qpprime_flag = 0
seq_scaling_matrix_present_flag = 0

log2_max_frame_num_minus4 = 1
pic_order_cnt_type = 0
log2_max_pic_order_cnt_lsb_minus4 = 6

num_ref_frames = 2
gaps_in_frame_num_value_allowed_f lag = 0

pic_width_in_mbs_minus1 = 89 -----> HRes = 1440
pic_height_in_map_units_minus1 = 33 -----> VRes = 1088
frame_mbs_only_flag = 0 -----> interlaced
mb_adaptive_frame_field_flag = 1

direct_8x8_interference_flag = 1
frame_cropping_flag = 1
frame_crop_left_offset = 0
frame_crop_right_offset = 0
frame_crop_top_offset = 0
frame_crop_bottom_offset = -1

vui_parameters_present_flag = 1
aspect_ratio_info_present_flag = 1
aspect_ratio_idc = 11
sar_width = 15
sar_height = 11 -----> aspect ratio 16:9

overscan_info_present_flag = 0

video_signal_type_present_flag = 0

chroma_loc_info_present_flag = 0

timing_info_present_flag = 1
num_units_in_tick = 1
time_scale = 50
fixed_frame_rate_flag = 1 -----> frame rate 25 fps

nal_hrd_parameters_Present_flag = 0
vcl_hrd_parameters_Present_flag = 0

pic_struct_present_flag = 1
bitstream_restriction_flag = 0

------------------------------------------------------------
So, 1440x1088 interlaced with MBAFF on

[Zyknyp]

Let's see...

[Gone_Fishing]

I wasn't knocking your pc speck M8 just most people would just stick it in vlc which doesn't like MBAFF unlike elecard

I'm not going to bother discussing this any further as theres no point because I would have answers for you and you would
have answers for me esecially if your going to start talking about things like MBAFF

There is however one way to simplify things and thats use your eyes interlaced material is unmistakable on a progressive screen


TNT

[Zyknyp]

Sorry TNT, but you're way wrong right there. H.264 adds lots of nice "tricks" to make interlaced material look much better on all screens. But what we have here is natively a progressive source (that is, "Hustle" was shot progressively) in a H.264 interlaced stream, that's why the interlaced nature doesn't shines through. Try with a natively interlaced source (as football matches), without deinterlacing it would look as you'd expect...jagged. The MBAFF part is a clever technique to make deinterlace even smoother in phase of decoding: for H.264 has, among other things...
Flexible interlaced-scan video coding features, including:
Macroblock-adaptive frame-field (MBAFF) coding, using a macroblock pair structure for pictures coded as frames, allowing 16×16 macroblocks in field mode (compared with 16×8 half-macroblocks in MPEG-2).
Picture-adaptive frame-field coding (PAFF or PicAFF) allowing a freely-selected mixture of pictures coded as MBAFF frames with pictures coded as individual single fields (half frames) of interlaced video.

[3tv]

Examples ???
sky hd and premiere broadcast alot of movies in 1080p but the recievers can only output it interlaced. record it on a reciever that allows you to transfer it to a pc and examine the transport stream there, if you havent the hardware, grab an un butchered SKY HD cap off usenet

example:
Office Space 1080p h264 DD5.1

file search c-os

[Zyknyp]

I can watch Premiere HD via htpc and they never ever broadcast something in 1080p format, ever. I can record the native .TS and I can assure you that: no way, ah-ah, nope.
I don't see why people keep insisting on this point...like there was a huge difference between 1080p and 1080i at the end of day.

[Gone_Fishing]

Your so way wrong right wrong right right wrong right :p


TNT

[morfsta]

Right, interesting discussion chaps but nothing broadcasts 1080p. Not Sky, not Premier, nothing, irrespective of what your PC says. I know this because I implemented the automatic resolution switching in CoreAVC patch for VDR and xine so I have looked at lots of H264 SPS's within IFRAMES and it is either1080i (1920x1080i / 1440x1080i) or 720p.

1080p uses much more bandwidth and even with mpeg4 is unlikely to be do-able on even high bandwidth platforms such as satellite.

Still, it's been one of the most liveliest debates I've seen of Satpimps for ages!

[renibacterium]

That's right chaps there are no commercial 1080p broadcasts. Too much bandwidth. Can be done, but will limit the number of channels a broadcaster can put out and we all know that is not going to happen until either compression improves further or / and all broadcaster 's agree to do the same.

[3tv]

hav you looked at any of thr caps on usenet that are stated as being progressive and capped off skyHD? have you seen the size of some of the quality 1's that are averaging 18mbit/sec, hd-dvd didnt use much more than that and they had hd master audio/dts tracks etc so bandwidth isnt and issue.

some people cant see the wood for the trees

[morfsta]

and you can't admit your wrong! Look at the broadcasts, not captured stuff.. then come back and tell us what you see...

Some people can't see the truth for their arse...

[3tv]

and you can't admit your wrong! Look at the broadcasts, not captured stuff.. then come back and tell us what you see...

Some people can't see the truth for their arse... im wasting my time, feel free to goto _abhdtv.net and tell em there reported progressive skyhd caps are interlaced.

[peggle]

Arggg....

My understanding is ALL 1080 broadcasts are technically 1080i.

However the material broadcast can be progressive @ 25 FRAMES PER SECOND.

There is some kind of flag in the data stream that tells the TV to treat the signal as progressive. So the TV takes the 2 interlaced fields and displays them as a progressive picture REFRESHED 25 times a second.

THIS IS NOT FULL 1080p HD. Full HD is refreshed 50 times a second.

[morfsta]

All flat panel displays are progressive... Internal scalers etc change the incoming signal to be progressive @ the native resolution.

[peggle]

All flat panel displays are progressive... Internal scalers etc change the incoming signal to be progressive @ the native resolution.

Agreed.

In my clumsy way what I was trying to say is a broadcast progressive image is refreshed once every 1/25 second where the whole picture is updated at once, and an interlaced image is refreshed every 1/50 second where just every other line is updated. This is determined by a flag in the data stream.

I'm no expert, just seem to remember reading this eons ago.

[3tv]

Arggg....

My understanding is ALL 1080 broadcasts are technically 1080i.

However the material broadcast can be progressive @ 25 FRAMES PER SECOND.

There is some kind of flag in the data stream that tells the TV to treat the signal as progressive. So the TV takes the 2 interlaced fields and displays them as a progressive picture REFRESHED 25 times a second.

THIS IS NOT FULL 1080p HD. Full HD is refreshed 50 times a second.

sounds like you are refering to US sourced material thats flagged correctly so your tv can IVTC the image (reverse the 3:2 pulldown) No need for this in PAL land though as all 24fps is speed up to 25fps, blu-ray and hd-dvd being the exception. Shame HD on sat never went the 24fps route :(

this stuff can batter the grey matter, somtimes is better to just kick back and enjoy your image what ever you think it is :)

[Ragnarok]

1080p uses much more bandwidth and even with mpeg4 is unlikely to be do-able on even high bandwidth platforms such as satellite.



No one ever said progressive had to be full 50 frames per second.

Sky HD's Movie channels all broadcast at 1080P25 (due to the codec which automaticly encodes film material progressively) which is perfect for films speed up like PAL dvd's.

Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies are all encoded at 1080P24 or 1080p25 currently depending on source material, nobody seems to have a problem excepting those as 1080P.

1080P50 is currently unnesseasry for movies, however I can't wait for the day we get sport in that format!! and for the record I'd perfer sport being broadcast in 720p over 1080i for the time being.

[ian_t_baxter]

No one ever said progressive had to be full 50 frames per second.

Sky HD's Movie channels all broadcast at 1080P25 (due to the codec which automaticly encodes film material progressively) which is perfect for films speed up like PAL dvd's.

Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies are all encoded at 1080P24 or 1080p25 currently depending on source material, nobody seems to have a problem excepting those as 1080P.


I thought Sky HD was only broadcast in 720p or 1080i ?

[safcsat]

I thought Sky HD was only broadcast in 720p or 1080i ?

It is. Sky ONLY broadcast in 1080i now. When it first came out they used to broadcast sport in 720p and movies in 1080i for example.

Now they only send out 1080i broadcasts.

Stop arguing now people and play nice :respect-056: :p

[bobbyboil]

right thats it, its my ball and i am going home, so no one can play now

[tchakavo]

so why eurosport has a fullhd logo on most of its tennis games?

[Jono]

right thats it, its my ball and i am going home, so no one can play now


**** just when i wanted to kick it

lol:respect-069:

Jono